Gryzemuis on 3/8/2013 at 17:56
Quote Posted by henke
I haven't noticed any pattern. :erg:
Heavy spoilers. (About what will not happen in ASOIAF).
[spoiler]After books 1-3 you think everyone can die. Nobody is safe. But that's not true when you pay attention.
I am convinced that Jon, Dany and Tyrion will not die. Jon and Dany are really the two protagonists of the books. Ice and Fire. They won't die. And Tyrion is GRRM's favorite. After almost 20 years, he's not gonna kill Tyrion. Maybe he could have early on. But not anymore.
Dany out alone in the desert, without food and water ? Going to die ? At the last minute, a dragon comes flying in to save her. Or was it a Dothraki guy on a white horse ? Tyrion falls in the water and drowns ? Oh noes, at the last minute somebody dives in and rescues him. About Jon: just read the 6th book. Nobody seems to believe he will die. GRRM has even hinted at his survival ("Oh, you think he's dead ?"). If you look at Dany's storyline, it is really nothing special compared to conventional storytelling with a hero. (And yes, I am not a fan of Dany). I also think Arya is untouchable.
[/spoiler]
Vivian on 3/8/2013 at 20:19
Dude, Jon Snow gets stabbed to death
Yakoob on 3/8/2013 at 20:45
Quote Posted by Angel Dust
Sounds like you need to move on from genre fiction for a bit, Yakoob.
Oi definitely, but I guess I'm still learning who generic/nongeneric authors are since, as I said, I'm way behind on my literature :p
Ooh thanks. Ironically now instead of knowing "oh the character wont die" im gonna be thinking "oh the chracater will die" haha :p but still don't know when (or whom, if it's a varied cast) so it's still more exciting!
Quote Posted by LittleFlower
Also, GRRM (the author of ASOIAF) started to "bring back people". He criticised Tolkien for
bringing Gandalf back from the dead.AWesome, I was considering reading the books, thanks for the major spoiler.
Gryzemuis on 3/8/2013 at 22:20
Quote Posted by Vivian
Dude,
Jon Snow gets stabbed to death[spoiler]He gets stabbed. We are not sure he is dead. We are not sure he will die. I'm 99.9% sure that he'll survive. Either he recovers from the knife-wounds. Or he gets resurrected by Melissandre. (Note: in the TV-series Melissandre meets Thoros of Myr, and discusses R'hllor's kiss. A subtle hint that this is important, and my be applied to more people than just Berric). Or he wargs into Ghost. Whatever happens, I am sure he is not just dead.
Also, when GRRM was asked during an interview about Jon Snow's death, he replied "Oh, you think he's dead, don't you ?". GRRM then refused to discuss whether Jon Snow is dead or not. That is a clear indication to me that he's not just dead yet.
Link to interview -> (
http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/)
[/spoiler]
Quote Posted by Yakoob
AWesome, I was considering reading the books, thanks for the major spoiler.
You are kidding, right ?
june gloom on 3/8/2013 at 22:35
IN THIS EPISODE
JESUS DIES
faetal on 4/8/2013 at 03:17
The way I handle suspension of disbelief in protagonist-driven storylines is the assumption of a culmination of low probabilities making this story the one worth telling. It's easy to imagine that a multitude of other similar stories aren't worth telling because the protagonist failed at some juncture. Kind of like the narrative equivalent of (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle) anthropic principle. The reason I am reading about this seemingly indestructible person is because this is the one time when someone actually beat all of those odds.
Xorak on 4/8/2013 at 05:54
The reader wants to believe in the world and the fantasy. Death is the removal of that fantasy and the reintroduction of reality. That's why readers want the characters to survive, because in reality nobody survives forever. Yet obviously the reader also wants the characters to face conflict and danger. That's where quality writing comes into play, to force the reader to the brink and then pull them back. That's why The Restaurant at the End of the Universe does such great business.
Because on the other side, if every book/movie starts killing every character at whim, that'd become so bland and tiring very quickly.
Pyrian on 5/8/2013 at 20:04
I had to laugh at GoT when, in a duel between minor characters, one of them is described as "honorable", so you know he's going to die. :p Inversion? Sure. Unpredictable? Not so much.
Glen Cook has shocked me a few times, although even there the main character is largely plot armored, but major characters die all the time. Not so much unpredictably per se, but there's an excellent chance that a major battle is going to see major character losses, and it's not always obvious which.
catbarf on 6/8/2013 at 00:54
Didn't Stephen King play with this idea a lot? The Shining seems like the perfect example of averting that particular literary trope.
Muzman on 6/8/2013 at 05:55
As mentioned, if your relating to a character's emotional life is merely on the level of whether or not they'll really die, then the characters are pretty shitty. And probably the story too.
It's a valid way to do business. Not everything has to be deeply held drama. But if it's the only thing, well that's another matter (and increasingly it seems it is ).
Killing characters off is often considered bad writing in some circles too. It's as much a gimmick as anything else really (as comics have gleefully displayed, thoroughly beating death to death over the years). Particularly in serial drama with a core cast, the longer you go on the harder it becomes to do without seeming cheap (Joss Whedon gets flack for this all the time).
The audience usually connotes on some level the kind of story that is being told and what's appropriate. If it's some tragedy spiraling towards doom then you know stuff is probably going to badly for someone major. Lost is set up as an ensemble for character torture and guys shouting "WAAAAAAAAAALT" for weeks on end. Otherwise it really doesn't matter if characters are functionally bulletproof, so long as people don't feel like they are.
