MisakaMikoto on 17/12/2014 at 06:42

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I noticed recently that NewDark doesn’t apply the effects of sunlight down past about 900 units. Because my mission’s bounding terrain varies greatly in its contours, it took me a couple days to figure out what was going on, but by process of elimination I finally found out.

(By the way, my sunlight direction is reasonable: 0.66, 1.0, -1.4. Also, note that drastically increasing the negative Z intensity can get small gains in sunlight reach, possibly to 900 units or so, but not beyond, and with undesirable side effects on light intensity [it can become almost imperceptibly faint even at max intensity] and angle.)

Beyond about 900 units away from a sky-painted uttermost wall along line of sight to the sunlight originating point, sunlight simply hits a “floor” of sorts beyond which sunlight does not affect terrain surfaces (and probably objects; I haven’t tried).

See the following progression of ceiling heights:


800-unit ceiling heighthttp://s12.postimg.org/55l97rfz1/800.jpg


1,000-unit ceiling heighthttp://s12.postimg.org/r61lodyn1/1000.jpg


1,200-unit ceiling heighthttp://s12.postimg.org/6uucftvod/1200.jpg


1,400-unit ceiling heighthttp://s12.postimg.org/jxpyz3lwd/1400.jpg


1,600-unit ceiling heighthttp://s12.postimg.org/y2vs0wuxp/1600.jpg


I’ve verified this by painting the uttermost walls in sky hack and by inserting a sky-painted solid cylinder dipping down into the center of my mission area: Shadows are cast beyond a certain distance of the nearest uttermost edge painted as sky. You can see that the sunlight, which is coming from the behind-left of the vantage point shown here, gets “closer” to the right-side portion of the mission area by passing through the solid cylinder; the left side of the mission area, on the other hand, getting its sunlight source (because of my sunlight angle) from the walls and higher ceiling, fails the sunlight drop check and stays dark, being too far from the nearest sky-painted uttermost edge.

1,600-unit ceiling height with artificially lowered ceiling in placeshttp://s12.postimg.org/lfbfanqn1/1600s.jpg


I’ve (http://www.mediafire.com/download/yo9560oy9y32dyx/sunlight+error.rar) uploaded a very simple mission (just an obelisk within a cube) demonstrating cessation of sunlight effect about 900 units away from the nearest sky in line of sight to the sunlight originating point. The archive is 93kb.

Here’s a screenshot; notice how the very slightly pitched wedge at the bottom reveals areas that are considered too far along line of sight from the sunlight originating point, as well as how interjecting sky-textured solids allows sunlight to extend farther in corresponding places, but at the cost of reduced mission area:http://s16.postimg.org/fx7udg00l/demo.jpg


Anyone run into this issue? It’s a shame that NewDark doesn’t just apply sunlight rendering to the entire space, as far down as possible. This unexpected discovery of a limit beyond which sunlight doesn’t render is requiring me to build in artificial sky ceilings to keep the sky of my mission about 800 feet away from all surfaces (difficult considering the terrain and light direction) or, failing that, to rebuild the mission to be 900 units high from top to bottom (it takes place nestled in a mountain range, and the playable area itself ranges considerably up from the shore to the upper, mountainous half of the city, so I’m trying to avoid that at all costs).

I know it’s been a while since the last release of NewDark, but I’d love nothing more than to see this unanticipated limit removed so that tall (~900-unit or higher) missions can light from top to bottom without the use of hideous, hideous hacks that can’t fix all (not even close to all) such situations. http://cf.geekdo-static.com/images/sad.gif

MisakaMikoto on 17/12/2014 at 07:47

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Aaannnnnd ... that’s what I get for not remembering the release notes these many months later. I could have saved myself some time by going back and reading them again. http://cf.geekdo-static.com/images/blush.gif

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. It’s off to install some fake ceilings, then.

MisakaMikoto on 17/12/2014 at 09:14

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No, not at all.

I'm going to redesign to try to find a compromise between my original concept and workable fake ceilings.

Thanks for the help! I last worked (extensively, back then) in DromEd in 2003 and it is good to get back into it. It was like slipping into an old shoe. But with NewDark I am getting far fewer errors, which is refreshing.

As an aside, how long before I don't have to type in a secret answer to submit every post and reply? (I have had two previous user IDs here at TTLG, one used once or twice about four years ago and the other used extensively about eleven years ago. I don't remember either of those IDs, let alone have access to the e-mail addresses, and so have to start over.)

MisakaMikoto on 17/12/2014 at 15:45

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Thank you! I have lurked here intermittently during that whole period, but just recently, after finishing playing through System Shock 2 and both Thiefs with my children, who are 3, 4, and 5 years old, for their first time (my umpteenth), they requested that we then start playing FMs. I had been keeping current through Cheap Thief Missions (and I've just recently caught entirely current through the alternate sites that are making up the void left when CTM stopped updating) and when, in pulling something out of the stack, I discovered Melan's work, I got the DromEd bug all over again.

Dromediting destroyed, and I really do mean that, my first year of college, but now that NewDark's around it was just too tempting. After putting it off as hard as I could for a whole month, I'm officially back at it. I forgot what satisfaction there is in building something.

I appreciate the welcome. I wasn't well known eleven years ago—except for DromEd questions—and I don't expect to be now, either. My kids ask when the new Thief mission will be ready, and I tell them—every time—“Years from now.” Because that is without doubt true. I'm simply focusing on building a really pleasing city right now, and maintaining radio silence. Last time, fresh out of high school and wildly optimistic, I was a bit of a hype train over a series of missions I didn't finish, partly because Dromediting killed my first year of college (I came out with Cs, though after a year's break working I got my head on straight and graduated cum laude), partly because I gave up computer gaming for six years, partly because I became a serious board gamer (still am), and partly because in any case I had hit poly limits and was getting mired down in details before even finishing the terrain.

But you can probably expect questions in here when I run into something I don't remember how to do.

It's good to be back.