Super confused about upgrading Thief I and II

jtr7 on 16/9/2008 at 16:33

Thanks Bikerdude, potterr, ZB, and Jashin.:thumb:

(Ahem)
I would've thought this thread could be moved to the forums where these things are regulary discussed or come up most, and ThiefGen ain't it. I know some of these things are most discussed in one forum or another, but only touched on here. "Better forum" as in one where one is more likely to get the answers one is looking for. I also know that moving a thread creates two paths, possibly increasing the chances to be seen by the informed who may share their knowledge, and when it comes to patches, tweaks, loaders, and enhancements, I ain't one of them.

Renault on 16/9/2008 at 16:53

Quote Posted by jtr7

I would've thought this thread could be moved to the forums where these things are regulary discussed or come up most, and ThiefGen ain't it.

Not true, most of the links in the original post link to a thread in ThiefGen. Some go to the FM forum, but since most upgrades apply to the original missions as much as any FM, I would think this is the perfect forum for this kind of talk. You could make an argument for the technical/troubleshooting forum, but it probably wouldn't get seen by nearly as many people over there.

Go2doug on 17/9/2008 at 02:36

Quote Posted by Bikerdude

First question: - go to the editors guild

Second question: - go to the editors guild

Even though my questions do not revolve around "editing" Thief? Not to mention there are currently 376 pages in the Editors' Guild section, each with 40+ threads...

Quote Posted by Bikerdude

Third question: The hardware version

Fourth question: the enhancement pack is addition to existing patches as far as I understand.

Fifth Question: - the NTEX Pack is a high texture qaulity(32bit versus 16bit) update/upgrade, where as the enhancement pack just update the existing standard textures and objects - and I run both.

Sixth question: - hmmm, I would say it wont matter either way, but Im sure the author of darkload and garret loader will be along with more info.

Thank you for your clarifications.

Quote Posted by Jashin

Can we put together a page on the circle, a step-by-step install guide of all the essential user-made upgrades over the years?

I think that would be a very useful and beneficial task to embark upon. The creators of the upgrades (Orgy, Daemonite, and others) should seriously consider collaborating on this, in my opinion.

Quote Posted by Brethren

Here, here! I do think it was a mistake to move the Thief technical support forum away from the "Thief Series" section to the "Legacy Gaming" one, but that is another topic. Anyway, I did try my best to answer my own questions before starting this thread, to which the links in the References section of my post attest. However, I mostly found posts by others who were/are just as confused as I am.

I did install the Thief Enhancement Pack into TG after I had installed some upgrades made by Daemonite and Orgy, and soon I will install TMA and then use the Enhancement Pack and NTEX simultaneously. Wish me luck.

sNeaksieGarrett on 17/11/2008 at 06:21

I thought I should come and post some response here, since Biker simply told you to go away.:p :cheeky: Plus it could help others asking the same questions.

Quote:

First question: we now have the ability to import the TMA meshes into TDP/G. However, it's confusing how this should be done. On this page, there are two choices; which should we choose? One choice is "Thief 1 & Gold AI Mesh & Skin Patch" by Daemonite and the other is "Thief 2 Meshes in Thief Gold" by Orgy. So which is better?

Second question: there is a "GIF" and a "TGA" version of Daemonite's meshes. What is the difference between these - is one higher quality than the other? Which one is more appropriate for modern PCs?

Third question: Regarding Orgy's texture patches ("Thief Gold Texture Patch") on that page, which one is more appropriate for modern PCs, the software of hardware version?

So on that page we can upgrade TDP/G and TMA's meshes, skins, and textures. That brings us to the "Thief Enhancement Pack".

Fourth question: What is the relationship of the Thief Enhancement Pack to the "User Patches" on this page? If I install the Enhancement Pack, do I not need the upgrades listed on it? Does the Enhancement Pack do anything not listed in my first three questions?

Fifth Question: What is the relationship of the NTEX Pack for TMA to the Thief Enhancement Pack? Can you install both on TMA, or must you choose one?

Sixth question: Does one need to let the Darkloader "optimize" TDP/G and TMA before you can apply all the patches listed above?

First Q: This is a matter of taste probably. I haven't personally tried the Orgy version, as it seems smaller and is probably not as extensive as the Daemonite patch. I can say that the Daemonite patch is well worth it though.

Second Q: Yes. TGA version appears to be better. I'm mainly going off The Circle's description. TGA version is 24-bit colors, whereas the GIF version is 256 colors.:eww:

Third Q: This question is kind of not worded well (sorry). I think a better question is, What's the difference between hardware and software, and which one should I get if I have a modern computer (or I don't)?
Note: I'm not so sure about my answer, so one might want to get a second opinion if you will. Depending on your hardware (that is, cpu, graphics, etc.) this could change. If you have a modern computer, then you obviously want the hardware version. Hardware uses the best possible textures in all their hi-res glory, am I right? Software is, well software. If you have an older computer that might not be able to handle higher res textures, then go for the software version. I'm not sure on this, but I think the terms software and hardware for the texture patch refer to thief 1/gold's "hardware on" versus "hardware off" modes.:confused: If orgy himself/herself could confirm then we'd know for sure.

Fourth Q: To elaborate on Bikerdude's response, yes it is an addition, and does not replace daemonite's patch nor orgy's patch. You linked to the EP (Enhancement Pack) in your firstpost Go2Doug, which explains what the EP is/does. To rehash, all it does is change the objects in thief.

I hope that helps, to whoever needed it besides Go2Doug if you are out there.:)

bikerdude on 17/11/2008 at 08:24

Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett

I thought I should come and post some response here, since Biker simply told you to go away.:p :cheeky: Plus it could help others asking the same questions.

Sneaksie

Now think about what you just said, have I ever told someone to go away on this forum when they have asked for help.....:weird: :tsktsk:

biker

sNeaksieGarrett on 17/11/2008 at 22:04

I was kind of joking, you didn't say it directly, but that's what I got from "go to the editor's guild" which is like saying "go away"

ZylonBane on 18/11/2008 at 17:08

Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett

Second Q: Yes. TGA version appears to be better. I'm mainly going off The Circle's description. TGA version is 24-bit colors, whereas the GIF version is 256 colors.:eww:

TGAs under the Dark Engine are actually only 12-bit color. GIF/PCX textures allow 256 16-bit colors.

EvaUnit02 on 19/11/2008 at 15:51

Quote Posted by ZylonBane

TGAs under the Dark Engine are actually only 12-bit color.

So Daemonite's 24-bit TGA skins are just being downscaled by the engine?

sNeaksieGarrett on 19/11/2008 at 16:28

I guess the only way to know for sure is to test it in-game and see which one looks better. TGA vs GIF

ZylonBane on 19/11/2008 at 16:48

Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett

I guess the only way to know for sure is to test it in-game and see which one looks better. TGA vs GIF

It's not that simplistic. TGA will look better if you have a texture that needs to display a lot of color. Like, the entire visible spectrum. GIF/PCX will look better with textures that need smooth gradients.