Sulphur on 14/2/2013 at 20:17
JM is an expert at being contrarian, so he may have a point somewhere in the different perspective stakes -- if he didn't try so hard all the time. DS1 isn't perfect, but calling it a bad game is stretching this schtick past the breaking point, especially after liking Medal of Honor: whack-a-mole edition.
Renault on 14/2/2013 at 20:17
Sure, Bioshock is a good shooter, but since it's always hailed as the "spiritual successor" to SS2, that really shouldn't have been it's goal in the first place.
I guess my list would go: SS2 > SS1 > Dead Space > Bioshock 2 > Bioshock 1, still playing through DS2.
And yeah, for the most part, I liked all these games - some just had a bigger flaws than others.
nicked on 14/2/2013 at 20:18
Quote Posted by JohnnyTheWolf
I haven't been paying much attention to System Shock news these last years, so could someone enlighten me as to what exactly is NewDark?
Also, does anyone know what fan mods have been included in this release?
Thanks in advance
NewDark is the (somewhat stupid ass) name for the unofficial v1.19 patch for Thief 2 and v2.4 patch for System Shock 2 that fixes a lot of stuff, removes a lot of engine limitations and makes things generally better. More info here: (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140085) http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140085
ZylonBane on 14/2/2013 at 20:25
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
I mean, I prefer the shooting mechanics in SS2, but in terms of the feel of a pure shooter BioShock is certainly better.
Damning with faint praise there. Bioshock, the "Shooter 2.0", fell far short of the satisfying gunplay of actual pure shooters like Serious Sam. But SS2 isn't supposed to feel like Doom anyway. The scarcity of ammo intends that gunplay is measured by individual bullets spent, not seconds that the trigger is held down.
Quote Posted by nicked
NewDark is the (somewhat stupid ass) name for the unofficial v1.19 patch for Thief 2 and v2.4 patch for System Shock 2
Right, "Unofficial v1.19 patch for Thief 2 and v2.4 patch for System Shock 2" is
so much more easy to remember and less subject to change than "NewDark". :rolleyes:
Pyrian on 14/2/2013 at 20:44
Quote Posted by Brethren
In what single way, is any game with the Bioshock label
better than System Shock 2? Graphically is about all you could argue.
Quote Posted by Brethren
Sure, Bioshock is a good shooter, but since it's always hailed as the "spiritual successor" to SS2, that really shouldn't have been it's goal in the first place.
Is this the rose-colored glasses talking? We're discussing FPSRPG's here. Bioshock 2 is better than SS2 as a shooter, and has better and more interesting character upgrades, so in significant aspects it's better as an RPG. I think those are relevant considerations. System Shock 2 is better as a setting, as a story, as an explorable world. In SS2, the experience of having barely enough resources to scrape by in the early game is all but unmatched. SS2's mediocre as a shooter, and the balance was downright awful.
...Still mad about finally getting to fire a fusion gun, and finding out it's an f'in worthless piece of junk. :cheeky: Kind of funny in hindsight, but... C'mon.
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
...the satisfying gunplay of actual pure shooters like Serious Sam.
Oh, ZB, you're always good for a laugh.
Fafhrd on 14/2/2013 at 21:21
Quote Posted by Pyrian
and has better and more interesting character upgrades, so in significant aspects it's better as an RPG.
Except the upgrades don't have any role enforcement effect, and the game actively discourages actual role-playing by allowing the player to re-spec at will.
Phatose on 14/2/2013 at 21:31
Well, if I were to make a criticism of SS2, there's actually plenty I could rip on it for.
The actual action is uninspiring and dull. The underlying RPG mechanics are laughably unbalanced, not to mention they have hidden gun modifiers on specific weapons.
It's heavily reliant on the old "Audiologs of the dead" thing to the point that you really wonder if "Turn on recorder if you're about to die" is in UNN training.
There's no interaction between characters to speak of since you're a mute and they're all dead.
And SHODAN....from the second she shows up it's completely obvious that she is going to betray the fuck out of you. And the big reveal, inspiring as it was....doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. She goes through the trouble of making you believe she's Polito......and then drops the pretense completely for no reason whatsoever, and spends the rest of the game making sure you know you're going to outlive your usefulness the second the many are dead. Why? There isn't really anything to be gained from her dropping her Polito disguise, and even less for her to go to such lengths to make you know she's gonna fuck you over. It's counterproductive, and can't possibly help her, and in the end in fact screws her over. She's supposed to be insane, not stupid.
By comparison Fontaine waited until you actually had outlived your usefulness before he dropped his pretenses, you were an obvious threat since you were heavily spliced and the vita-chambers would resurrect you, and he had a plan in place to kill you by then.
Muzman on 14/2/2013 at 21:51
Quote Posted by Phatose
It's heavily reliant on the old "Audiologs of the dead" thing to the point that you really wonder if "Turn on recorder if you're about to die" is in UNN training.
I can only think of a few instances of people actually knowingly about to die while recording themselves. So I don't think this applies, unless you're criticising it for using the audio-log trope the series essentially popularised. But that would be silly.
SubJeff on 14/2/2013 at 21:55
Were "Audiologs of the dead" old hat when SS2 came out?
"There's no interaction between characters to speak of since you're a mute and they're all dead."
This is a criticism? I MUST HAVE CHARACTER INTERACTIONS OR THE GAME IS BALLS BALLS I TELL YOU!!! Wtf man?
Doesn't she make you believe she's Polito until you've a.seen wtf is going on with The Many and b.she's seen you're capable of being told what the real deal is an dealing with it?
Phatose on 14/2/2013 at 21:57
I might be remember it wrong. Lets see...Bronson, Prefontaine, the little blonde who only fired a gun for the first time this morning, the crazy hacker....that's 4 from memory, and it's been a while since I played the game.
I dunno if they were old hat then, didn't play it at release.
Neither of those things are actually a reason to drop the pretense though. She could've happily maintained her disguise, and you'd be none the wiser. Why drop it at all? She clearly understood humans were gonna be skeptical of the assistance of a mad AI. And why afterward wave the "LOL I AM EVUL!" card around every chance she got?
