DDL on 15/2/2013 at 17:07
I thought the whole "integrate the HUD into Isaac" was a really nice idea, conceptually, even if it was very silly from a realism perspective (why you'd want a handy health/O2 gauge on your fucking spine is beyond me: "you need level 5 yoga before you can check how much oxygen you have remaining").
But yes, the sheer amount of Isaac in the way did mean you were effectively blind in one eye. "As long as nothing attacks me from my left, I'll be fine".
I think I mostly used the starting gun for pretty much everything. That's the one that flips between vert and horizontal as altfire, right?
Malleus on 15/2/2013 at 17:23
Quote Posted by DDL
(why you'd want a handy health/O2 gauge on your fucking
spine is beyond me: "you need level 5 yoga before you can check how much oxygen you have remaining")
I don't know, workplace safety? You can keep an eye on your mates' status in case they get distracted or something. These suits are for people who work in extremely hostile environments after all, (though in the later games everyone started to wear the health bar). At least this is what I deluded myself with while playing. :)
In the first game I used the pulse rifle and the force gun, in the second one it was the pulse rifle almost exclusively. The third one is complicated when it comes to weapons. :)
catbarf on 15/2/2013 at 18:53
I thought it wasn't too implausible to figure that the helmet has a HUD, and important information is also displayed on the back to the benefit of teammates. The icons on doors and the breadcrumbs suggested that much of the world information is being conveyed through a HUD in the first place. They could have done it through purely first-person, but I don't think it's really a big deal. Films can be frightening and they're exclusively third-person regarding the characters. I get that it's not exactly the same, but still.
Pyrian on 15/2/2013 at 23:07
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
SS2 has actual RPG systems (which were designed in such a way where you had to specialise), character classes and PERMANENCE.
SS2 classes aren't "classes" in any standard RPG sense. They just influence your starting skills and equipment. And there's very little in the way of need for specialization (aside, of course, from upgrading, which Bioshock 1&2 also have, and with rather more restrictions, I might add; in SS2 you can max out your skills as soon as you get the number of modules, but in the Bioshock series you must progress through the game to unlock particular upgrades even if you could've afforded them earlier).
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
There was even some consequence to using SS2's pattern buffers (vs. none with Bioshock's vitachambers having none).
5 nanites. IIRC, resurrection is the cheapest resource you can buy. I didn't use either system because I think they're both kind of dumb, preferring instead to reload.
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
In Bioshock you can hotswap out skills with no consequence and you're a jack of all trades. Character permanence is huge part of Roleplaying and Bioshock doesn't have this in the slightest.
In a typical RPG - including SS2 - you buy a skill or ability and have it from then on, and you don't have the ones you don't buy. In BS1&2, you buy a skill or ability and
in addition you have to have slots to equip them in. You can swap out which abilities you've got active, but you can't sell them off for different ones.
The whole Gene Bank system is a
restriction that exists in Bioshock and not System Shock 2.
Anyway, if it bothers you so much,
don't do it. That was my solution to Vita Chambers. Funny how people play these games that give you wide leeway to play them the way you want to, and then complain bitterly that the game allows them to play in ways they do not want to.
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Well then, why don't you explain what's so funny.
Your citation for "satisfying gunplay" is a game with hordes of enemies so vast (or
single enemies so vast) that there's often little point in
aiming.polytourist97 on 16/2/2013 at 00:02
Quote Posted by Pyrian
In a typical RPG - including SS2 - you buy a skill or ability and have it from then on, and you don't have the ones you don't buy. In BS1&2, you buy a skill or ability and in addition you have to have slots to equip them in. You can swap out which abilities you've got active, but you can't sell them off for different ones.
The whole Gene Bank system is a restriction that exists in Bioshock and not System Shock 2.
Fine and dandy, but what you've essentially illustrated is that BS's "rpg" element isn't really character building at all, but merely an additional weapon system. Which is exactly what it is. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily, but I certainly didn't find it too enthralling. Also, the gene bank system "restriction" does indeed exist is System Shock 2. Remember the method in which you had to spend those precious cyber modules? By using upgrade stations. Four
different upgrade stations to be exact, depending on what aspect of your loadout you wanted to alter. And a lot of the time not all four were in the same area. So you couldn't just upgrade the skills and abilities you wanted at will, you had to find a station first. However, in SS2 you couldn't sell off those upgrades once you reached a station, you had to dance with who ye brought. In BS you were free to sell off and reorganize to whatever you deemed necessary or convenient at the time (allowing yourself to tailor your skills to situations you encounter, vs. adapting to situations because of lacking abilities). If you want to say "having only a set number of slots available" is a restriction, I could counter that with SS2's weapon system being equivalent due to having limited inventory space to carry weapons.
I don't know why I'm even taking so much time to clarify this, as it seems pretty obvious. The only restriction the gene bank system possesses is the fact that you actually have to find one to use it. Which isn't hard seeing as how they're conveniently placed at the beginning and end of areas.
heywood on 16/2/2013 at 03:04
To add...
Bioshock gives you the useful plasmids and tonics and lots more for free so there's really no need to spend Adam on anything except maybe health upgrades (and only if you're trying not to use vita chambers). And it gives you heaps of Adam. So there are no tradeoffs and hard decisions to be made. About the only reason to buy a plasmid is if you're getting bored of killing people in the same ways and want to see a different death animation. Gene Banks aren't much of a restriction. They prompt an occasional backtrack, but that's about it. And that's only early in the game. Once your slot capacity increases, you don't even bother.
Never once did I spend time thinking about how best to spend my Adam and what future upgrade paths and character options would open or close as a result of my decision.
Jason Moyer on 16/2/2013 at 06:20
If you're playing on hard and not using/abusing the vita chambers you aren't getting very far with the plasmids/tonics the game gives you.
Jason Moyer on 16/2/2013 at 06:22
Quote Posted by polytourist97
Fine and dandy, but what you've essentially illustrated is that BS's "rpg" element isn't really character building at all, but merely an additional weapon system
How are the engineering and physical tonics a "weapon system" ?
Fafhrd on 16/2/2013 at 07:03
Quote Posted by polytourist97
I don't know why I'm even taking so much time to clarify this, as it seems pretty obvious. The only restriction the gene bank system possesses is the fact that you actually have to find one to use it. Which isn't hard seeing as how they're conveniently placed at the beginning and end of areas.
The whole plasmid/tonic system is essentially the same as Tron 2.0's upgrade system, with the added limitation that you can only swap stuff out at specific locations.
polytourist97 on 16/2/2013 at 10:33
Tron 2.0 is actually a pretty good parallel. However, in Tron 2.0 instead of selling stuff back at stations, you get reset (if I recall correctly) at the start of each new area and then build up the various skills as you progress through the level, with the added wrinkle of certain abilities having steeper costs in certain areas (again, this is all from my playthrough from quite a while back). So Tron 2.0's was slightly more rpg'ish than BS's system, and I remember it working really well.
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
How are the engineering and physical tonics a "weapon system" ?
I will admit that my argument is mostly semantic, but I see it as they are a "weapon system" in the sense that they're still not necessarily (unless you choose to keep them permanently without swapping) a character trait. They are something to be equipped/slotted out depending on how you want to play an area. More like a weapon than a character stat.
