Bjossi on 18/2/2013 at 20:59
To each his own, I liked that backtracking element, and searching for the right chem store room could become quite a trip if you somehow forgot to pick up the manifest logs. But look on the bright side dethtoll, at least the chemical requirements aren't randomized, so the more you remember the less you actually need to backtrack because you can just take with you the chemicals you will need later.
I however would love if the chemical requirements for researchable objects was randomized when starting a new game. Toxin-A's requirement would need to remain static to avoid potentially breaking the game though.
EvaUnit02 on 18/2/2013 at 21:37
We now live in an age of in-game overlay browsers and game wikis(/GameFAQs.com/Google/etc). It isn't anywhere near of a hassle as it used to be, still an entirely valid criticism though.
ZylonBane on 18/2/2013 at 23:41
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Exactly why I hated it. Pain in the ass. Research is flow-destroying. I hated having to go back to some obscure store-room on a floor I hadn't visited in hours just for some obscure chemical.
Yeah, we get it, you're a knuckle-dragger who'd rather be playing Duke Nukem and just wants to be spoon-fed your happy happy funshoot time.
Angel Dust on 18/2/2013 at 23:50
Quote Posted by Bjossi
To each his own, I liked that backtracking element, and searching for the right chem store room could become quite a trip if you somehow forgot to pick up the manifest logs.
Yeah, I liked it for that too. I like it when a game blends in a little bit of the mundane with the usual game adventure; it grounds everything and enchances that feeling of being there. It's a tricky thing to pull off but the research in
System Shock 2 had that effect for me.
As for the Bioshocks, I greatly preferred the sequel's research method. It was fun and really encouraged experimentation whereas the photo taking in the first one was clumsy and rather silly.
june gloom on 19/2/2013 at 00:10
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Yeah, we get it, you're a knuckle-dragger who'd rather be playing Duke Nukem and just wants to be spoon-fed your happy happy funshoot time.
Bad ZB! Lazy!
Goldmoon Dawn on 19/2/2013 at 01:04
Oh I dont know, I got a decent chuckle out of it. :)
polytourist97 on 19/2/2013 at 01:44
BS's research is really retarded. What can you possibly learn about something from a picture that you couldn't already learn from physical encounters and in-person observation? Oh, the picture you took let's you know that anti-personal rounds work best and that the weakness is shooting them in the head? I totally did not figure that out by actually experimenting with ammo types and shot placement to see the same enemy drop much faster when using anti-personal rounds and shooting them in the head.
SS2's research has at least a quasi-scientific feel (with using chemicals, harvesting unknown organs and tissue to be analyzed) and gives explanations that could not be gleaned by mere observation (e.g. tissue composition, various enemy origins and purposes, etc.) which then actually makes one feel as though it is contributing to the understanding of the enemy and their ecology, rather than just simply being "sweet, bonus damage". Research in SS2 serves a narrative purpose as well as providing the gameplay bonuses.
Risquit on 19/2/2013 at 02:23
Am I the only one who abandoned the game because of a foolish save point? No ammo, something (don't remember what, probably a turret) killing me as soon as the game loaded.
Nice to get a shot again at completing this thing.
CCCToad on 19/2/2013 at 02:26
Quote Posted by polytourist97
BS's research is really retarded. What can you possibly learn about something from a picture that you couldn't already learn from physical encounters and in-person observation? Oh, the picture you took let's you know that anti-personal rounds work best and that the weakness is shooting them in the head? I totally did not figure that out by actually experimenting with ammo types and shot placement to see the same enemy drop much faster when using anti-personal rounds and shooting them in the head.
SS2's research has at least a quasi-scientific feel (with using chemicals, harvesting unknown organs and tissue to be analyzed) and gives explanations that could not be gleaned by mere observation (e.g. tissue composition, various enemy origins and purposes, etc.) which then actually makes one feel as though it is contributing to the understanding of the enemy and their ecology, rather than just simply being "sweet, bonus damage". Research in SS2 serves a narrative purpose as well as providing the gameplay bonuses.
Which is...well, a bit reflective of the lack of depth to Bioshock. I actually liked the photograph method of advancing research better than the item hunt since it meant that advancing your research bonuses was often risky, and it felt somewhat less forced than the "research software consumes a chemical" implausability of SS2. If Bioshock's Research had been presented in a somewhat less "gamey" way and rewarded you with (for example) a description of how each splicer's powers worked rather than a simple "you do more damage!!" notification it would have been the better system.
edit: Also, they didn't do a good job of emphasizing that it's not a "camera". It doesn't just take pictures but is also a genetic scanning device, so it provides the user feedback on the abilities of whatever you take a picture of.
ZylonBane on 19/2/2013 at 02:59
In SS2's research system you rip the still-beating organs from the freshly slain corpses of your enemies, then douse them in caustic chemicals until they reveal their secrets.
In Bioshock you take holiday snaps.
System Shock wins.
