Pyrian on 20/2/2013 at 21:40
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Well, good to know your opinion on FPSs can safely be ignored forever.
You're safely impervious to evidence in the first place, so that's hardly a relevant consideration, and certainly isn't going to stop me from pointing and laughing when you say silly things like citing Serious Sam's "satisfying gunplay" as if it were anything more than a run-and-gun hardly-bother-aiming no-iron-sights no-leaning no-need-for-stability fire-until-you're-out-of-ammo-then-switch-weapons-'cause-it-hardly-matters rumpus.
june gloom on 20/2/2013 at 22:08
FIIIIIIGHT
Briareos H on 20/2/2013 at 22:21
:weird: Serious Sam isn't like that at all. It came out at a time where iron sights almost didn't exist, but aiming in Sam offers the same precision -- and even more -- as modern shooters. If you don't aim precisely, you're toast on most difficulty levels. It definitely has satisfying gunplay, just like Quake 3 does. ARMA or a STALKER with a precise ballistics model it ain't but it's a damn good shooter.
Bioshock's gunplay has no redeeming quality, fortunately Bioshock 2 improved a lot on that which made it instantly infintely better in my opinon.
System Shock 2's shooting mechanics felt a bit like a bland, non-essential but mandatory component of the game, but at least the upgraded AR and pistol had a great feeling.
Pyrian on 20/2/2013 at 23:01
Quote Posted by Briareos H
:weird: Serious Sam isn't like that at all.
Because you differ (without even giving justification) on one aspect of what I wrote?
Quote Posted by Briareos H
...aiming in Sam offers the same precision -- and even more -- as modern shooters.
Uh, "more" precision was one of my criticisms. You fire straight while running and jumping.
Quote Posted by Briareos H
If you don't aim precisely, you're toast on most difficulty levels.
Maybe I was just skewed by playing a lot of FPS around the same time, but Serious Sam made it very easy for me to hit. Mostly you're shooting at large masses of enemies, or large single enemies. A typical encounter involves firing into a crowd as they get closer to you, then strafing backwards to dodge around at close range where timing is more important than aiming.
Quote Posted by Briareos H
It definitely has satisfying gunplay...
I've given you half a dozen reasons why I find the
gunplay in Serious Sam unsatisfying. So what's supposedly so
satisfying about it?
june gloom on 20/2/2013 at 23:19
FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT
faetal on 20/2/2013 at 23:39
I can't remember exactly, but does Serious Sam use recoil at all? Because while I found it FUN shooting loads of huge beasties with ridiculous guns, I'm not sure I'd call it good gunplay. My enjoyment of SS came from the "what? You're kidding me!" ridiculousness of the ever-increasing intensity of the firefights, but then guns were just point and shoot. A lot.
I'd actually say that Stalker had great gun play, where you had to really aim at the head in order to get the upper hand in a situation that was 100% against you. But that's just my opinion.
Briareos H on 20/2/2013 at 23:49
My point (but this is originally ZB's argument and I don't presume to be meaning what he thought) was that Serious Sam arguably does have good gunplay, so do STALKER and Quake 3 because, even though they are all very different in execution, there are common elements of required aiming skills and weapon feedback. Bioshock has neither.
Bjossi on 20/2/2013 at 23:53
I thoroughly enjoy the gunplay in Serious Sam, one reason is the gun sounds. The Cannon gave me multiple eargasms the first time I charged a cannonball and fired at a red biomechanoid in Alley of the Sphinxes, arguably my favourite "super weapon" ever. Too bad Croteam's sound designers lost their hearing during Serious Sam 2's development.
For me each gun has its little treasures and special uses. For example it just never gets old for me to ready the double barrelled coach gun, wait for a Kleer skeleton to run towards me and jump attack, and then I shoot it to bone fragments while it is just an inch away from clawing my face. Again the gun sound plays a role like with the Cannon.
Given the amount of ammo scattered about, you can pretty much make the gunplay as interesting as you want it. I don't have to shoot the Kleers with the coach gun from such a close distance, hell, I don't need to use that gun at all past the 4th level or so, it is just something I find lots of fun.
Angel Dust on 21/2/2013 at 01:53
What I liked about the gameplay/gunplay/whatever in the Serious Sam games is the little decisions I'd have to make during the massive battles. I'd be switching weapons fairly often based on the amount of ammo I had, how close the beasties were, the make up of the mob and certain priority targets, all the while keeping an eye out for health/armor and making sure to pick them during my endless strafe. I'd forgotten how much was involved with those old shooters, which is why Serious Sam 3 was such a delight. I think that the Bioshock games have a little bit more of that than most modern shooters but it's mostly just for fun rather than the white-knuckle survival of the Sam games.
ZylonBane on 21/2/2013 at 02:04
What they said. Dumping ammo into a seething mass of enemies is just a small part of Serious Sam. For every setpiece like that, there will be ones where you have to quickly and accurately pick off enemies swarming you from all directions (hello headless bombers). The wide variety of enemy types encourages you to switch weapons often, not out of boredom or curiosity as in Bioshock, but out of necessity. Any weapon will kill any enemy, but there are definitely weapons that are more suited to certain enemies than others. Tommy gun for headless bombers. Rockets for biomechanoids. Grenades for frog swarms. Shotgun for Kleer skeletons. Cannon for bulls. Chainsaw for close combat. The interplay of enemy/weapon design is fantastic.
