Nightwalker on 2/4/2002 at 14:14
I never found keys for either of those, I don't think. [SPOILER]I believe I used lockpicks on the one in the basement and I got into the big Hammer chapel upstairs from the balcony that overlooks it. You can open it from the inside with a lever to get back out. [/SPOILER]
Theef on 2/4/2002 at 17:10
Nightwalker:
[SPOILER]I did find a key on that priest, though. Wonder what it goes to, if not that? Well, maybe I'll get in there eventually. I tried the lockpicks, though (playing on "Hard") and didn't get in. I did the same thing with the balcony. I couldn't lean out far enough to get the rope arrow in the wood and still be able to slide down the rope. Every time I tried to climb down, I was bounced back up. Finally, I fell on the heads of the two hammers (lol) and they proceeded to turn me into a puddle of jelly. I'll have to try again tonight when I get home.
[/SPOILER]
Nightwalker on 2/4/2002 at 17:41
Theef - You DO need a key for the basement chapel. [SPOILER]I went back and checked my notes. The basement chapel opens with a greyish key. It's on the desk in the office upstairs where you find the "scripture" on the wall. [/SPOILER]
Brian_R171 on 2/4/2002 at 18:45
Quote:
Originally posted by Theef Right now I'm in the cathedral, in the basement. I've looked everywhere for keys to the gate down there. I've also not gotten into the main chapel on the upper floor (easy enough to do, though). Anyone have any hints as to where the key might be?
I think the key to the locked gate in the basement is on the desk in the office on the 2nd floor, where you find the scripture. I'm not positive of that, but I don't remember picking up any other keys in the Hammer area before going down to open that gate. This was on expert difficulty.
My solution to entering the 1st floor chapel was the same as Nightwalker's, I leaned out and shot a rope arrow into the wood. Then I moved over, crouched, and slowly backed out onto the rope. I fell the first time, but got it the second time.
I had already eliminated the two Hammers in the chapel. I got them by standing outside the gate and making some noise so the Hammers would come and investigate, then I hid in the shadows nearby and waited until they calmed down and started walking back and then lept out of the shadows and blackjacked them.
fornever on 3/4/2002 at 06:30
As for the key to get into the first floor chapel (the one that's accessible from the balcony upstairs):
[spoiler]I believe it's the key on the priest in the basement..or at least in his room on a table... It's gold or yellow if I remember correctly...but the balcony sort of eliminates the need for that key...[/spoiler]
I finally beat it on Expert today! I'm quite proud of finding that last 300 gold on my own... A little of it was just made up of bottles and cups laying on the floor and such that I overlooked, but a couple things I missed were pretty tricky.. So if you're still short on loot, here are a couple more places...they might have been mentioned before, but I don't recall reading about them specifically...
[spoiler]There is a jewelry box or whatever in one of the fireplaces on the second floor of the hotel with the bar downstairs.. Look for the fireplace with no fire and stand up inside it and look around to find the box on a shelf (a sure-fire hint that you're looking in the right place is that there is a change in the ambient music when you enter the right fireplace :^)....
The other one was a hidden room inside a hidden room.. Look in the previous posts to find out how to get into the secret passage in the hotel by turning the unlit torch.. Then, when in there, there is another hidden switch in the floor behind the treasure chest...[/spoiler]
skarza on 3/4/2002 at 14:51
Has anyone entered the hammer chapel by the back entrance? Everyone seems to go in via the front, I just want to know out of curiosity!
The sleeping guards are a real pain, I had the problem of they either slept through everything or woke up at the slightest thing! I toyed with the idea of having them wake up when you enter a certain radius (like the servant in baffords) but I thought that was a bit crappy. In the end I had to settle for how it is now. The guards wake up it they spot you, but if you darken the area down somewhat, you can sneak up on them and KO them. Another thing I found was you could break the window to the room in the south of the inn and the guard inside does not wake up! I had the reverse with the sleeping servants, to make them less aware I had to give them no vision, which lead to them wondering around like zombies trying to spot you! (They have no eyes ARRRGHHHH!) Anyone got a cure for this let me know. (I know about the sleeping servant gamsys file, but I would like to have a fix that does not use a modified Gamesys).
There are keys to open both gates. and if you want a safer way off the balcony...
[SPOILER]the border of the chapel wall is made of a small triangle of wood, a bit like the on above the banner at the start, fire you arrows there and you have a less painful way down![/SPOILER]
I think you can also see how I grew more experienced with dromed by the way the level improves the more you get into it, I started with the merchants house, moved on to Clickkey square (the name itself was a clue to where the lockpick is) them the Bridge inn, and finally the chapel. That is why I think the chapel plays better then the other parts.
I was going to use that bit beyond the metal ramp to lead to several more houses. The entrances are still there and a town house at the end were the guard with the pouch is. But I had to strip some bits out of the level because I ran out of objects, and the pathfinding of the AI got too big and keep on going out of range (ie crashing). Which was a shame not only did it make that bit seem a bit long, but also ment about a months work had to be cut out of the level. It was a hard choice but that bit did not have any impact on the plot so that was the bit I got rid of.
Well thats if for now,
vandi on 3/4/2002 at 18:45
I'm curious as to if I'm missing something here. I started this mission a few evenings ago, and haven't had too much time to devote to it on any of the evenings. However, after 3 nights I am not making much progress at all. (playing on expert) Last night I finally
[SPOILER]used a rope arrow to climb up on a slanted roof and then another to get to a window just above the roof. Once there, the window was locked. I shot a broadhead arrow to break it and then managed to climb in. Next the door out of the room was locked. Had to use the sword on break it down. Now there are tons of guards everywhere.[/SPOILER]
Am I on the right track here, or have I missed an obvious and easy way out of the starting area?:confused:
Nightwalker on 3/4/2002 at 19:16
I'm not sure exactly where you are, vandi, but I think you're taking the hard way. From the spot where you start, [SPOILER]straight ahead of you, above a locked gate, there's a banner. The banner is hung on a wood rail. Sink a rope arrow into the rail, climb up and to your left, there is a set of shutters. Open them and jump in the window. It can be a little tricky getting in, but you can do it. It's a bathroom in the Inn and you can make your way into other parts of the town from here. I hope that helps. You must be getting a little frustrated by now! :) [/SPOILER]
vandi on 3/4/2002 at 22:26
Oh my gosh Nightwalker...I never even thought that looked like wood there above the tapestry. You have saved the day (or should I say night) again. I think I was in the Inn. From the starting place, I went forward and then took a left, down past the chapel and then at the corner on the right was the sloped roof with the window above. Reading through some of the other descriptions, I think I came in the Inn the hard way.
I restarted the game and in under a minute I was having fun! I was soooooooooooooo
frustrated earlier, and no one else had even mentioned an early on problem. Thank you, thank you, thank you.....
Off to have fun!!!:cool:
Spamlet on 9/4/2002 at 03:48
Spoilers abound...
Skarza,
Congratulations! This is without a doubt one of the best city missions ever and those have always been my favorite kind especially when they feature going into a lot of different buildings a lot of different ways. You'll also be happy to learn I may be the only one so far who found the back way into the Hammer Temple, by accident, and it made the whole dang Hammerite thing possible (which when I tried going in all the other ways, before I'd even found my objectives two hours into the mission, was damn nigh impossible). I also found that switch to turn off the big pit trap (which apparently few did despite there being a note or two about it).
You said though that you wanted honest feedback so your next mission will be an improvement so despite my being incredibly grateful for your creating one of the best, most challenging T1/G FMs of all time here comes the part where I regretfully complain a little bit. I always play only on expert but I confess I did want to kill you several times for making the AI as ridiculously sensitive as you did (which I honestly believe is likely most sensitive of any T1/G mission fan or otherwise because I've played them all). I understand that you explained a great deal of that was due to your being new to design. It still unfortunately bears emphasis despite that fact. These AI (especially in the city streets/ inn part) were harder to sneak (by or up to) than the original version of Mage's Area (which was so difficult the author released any easier version because almost no noe could finish it)!!! I think it's safe to say your mission isn't ghostable, right?
Here's one example: The Hammer who guards the (empty, as far as I know, clocktower) came all the way from his- block away down in the street- post into the merchant's house and came all the way upstairs and searched for me :wot: :eek: (!): I hid in the hallway bathroom until he gave up and started to walk back then I creeped behind to jack him (this is on a wood floor mind you) and he turned around and killed me! I tried it over and over and no matter how slowly I creeped in crouch mode he possessed that sixth sense that "Elevator mission" guards had a few times :eek: . I finally got lucky b/c I saved again right as he turned and when I reloaded he was standing there like this upstairs hallway of a stranger's house was now his post (which in itself is totally illogical but I digress) and even then I had to wait until he started humming again before I could jack him!
The other thing is I only have only used flashbombs as an absolute last resort and can probably count the times I've used them while playing in single digits. Until I played this mission, that is. I am also ashamed to admit that I resorted once or twice to the cheat of knocking a guy through the door because there was no other way to get him (without wasting 5 or more water arrows and no one guard is worth that to me -stationary archer on inn's first floor is a good example). I later realized that the placement seemed to have been designed to accomodate a particular approach- even though there were multiple ways to enter areas one of those ways was 'correct' in terms of being able to come up behind the ai and knock him without additional tools (stationary guard in the upstairs inn hallway is a perfect example as is the gate guy in the inn's alley) that's something I think you need to fix in the next one because it's not possible or fair for the player to read the designer's mind as to which path is the right one.
I'm done with every objective except still being a bit shy on the total loot so if you (or NW) could post a few more of the places not mentioned yet-(I've looked everywhere except the floor switch behind the inn secret chest thing so maybe it's all there) because I'm 5 hours in at this point and the only time it took longer than that to find all loot was in the Vigil which took 7 hours and then I gave up because I was still somehow 26 bucks short.
For everyone else some helpful hints:
I didn't have any trouble going in through any of the windows because there's a trick: if you crouch and jump at the same time it's not only possible but quite easy (this was something I didn't even know one could do until I played Ranstall Keep and spent an hour trying to mantle into that window in the "spider house"). There is also a little known trick to retrieving rope arrows that almost never fails (it worked to get back every arrow in this mission even the clickey square one and I took no damage): if/when you are near the place you are trying to jump to- position yourself high enough to frob the arrow yet also make the jump. If you frob the arrow you will fall staright down as you probably know already but if you use the run/jump combo and frob at the same time you can grab the arrow as you make your leap. It might take some practice but this is an invaluable skill to have for thieving in general.
