242 on 30/5/2008 at 09:22
Quote Posted by klatremus
Pros:
- Attention to detail. This is also a given, and almost expected, from DrK's work. For me this is perhaps the most important part of any good mission. Details make the mission more believable and the world more real. Ink & Dust delivers immensely!
- Objectives. The story was driven by the objectives this time, not so much by pure exploration; as would be expected from an indoor environment. This was a change that added nice diversity to the campaign. The first two missions were very similar in style, and it looks like the fourth will take us back to the city, but here we get something different.
Cons:
- Mission style. I almost feel bad saying this is a con, cause it shouldn't be, but the keeper style mission isn't my favorite. I'd like for every misson to have some form of outdoor area; it adds to the realism I think. The halls of the order got kinda monotonous in the end, although there was a nice variety in the
elemental rooms. Also the fact that you had to
pick up 16 objects to create all the keys was a little overwhelming.
- Boring first half. Running around the south star picking up loot got a little lengthy to me. The area where
AIs didnt alert should have been smaller I think. The beautiful architecture and details go a long way, but you kinda get jaded after a while.
I can sign here ;)
Finished it on Shadow difficulty, found 5765 loot of 6500, 8 of 10 secrets, 14 paintings, spent 8h 20 min, didn't consult forums or walkthrough :)
While mission is gorgeous and very detailed graphically I found it rather strange. Really interesting elemental rooms, especially the Dark Zone :thumb: , beautiful South Star compound, and really monotonous long twisted corridors with lots of doors and out of place mechanists machinery here and there. It seemed like quite incoherent design to me.
I have mixed feelings about gameplay too. Some parts (Dark Zone f.e.) were very interesting, while others were boring. I do see lots of hard work that went into the mission, and attention to details, I appreciate excellent movie and voice acting, but still it's just not my favourite type of mission design I guess.
7.5/10
I just use all the range honestly, only a very few missions got 10 from me, and lots got 1-6
DrK on 30/5/2008 at 09:33
Esme :
My exams went well, I'm an architect since last summer. Or did you mean a psychiatric examination ? :ebil:
And yeah, I like to hide booby traps in my buildings...
Mr Bean :
Sorry, but I just can't believe you. :)
Klatremus :
Sorry you didn't enjoy it as much as the previous ones, but I guess it's all about one's taste after all. I love city missions too, as you guessed in 4th part you're back in the city, but this mission was necesary for the campaign and to settle down the background of the Rocksbourg city. Furthermore I wanted to do something different, something unique : how many keepers-like fms are there around here ? 4 or 5, out of 700 ? Now you can add mine in the list.
You missed one point, you don't need to create all the keys. Also, as you can guess, I like 2 themes for situations or gameplay : to be undercover, and the survival. If the South star was boring, you should have tried to attack one Soul, the whole compound would have been chasing you. :cheeky:
Anyway, thanks a lot for your feedbacks and the lootlists.
Fett :
As suggested you can use Klatremus lootlists. If you were stuck, you should have contacted me, I would have helped you getting through my fms. ;)
Kamyk :
God I love these kind of feedbacks :laff: thanks a lot !
It's simple, we are afraid of what we can't see or what we can't understand. I just put this on application for the design of my fms. Also I'm a fan of the Silent hill universe so it helps...
242 :
That's the idea, it's like a keeper group which goes too far in observation and experimentations. There are too many things to handle for them, everything is mixed up. Furthermore the compound evolves depending on the Souls behaviors, the glyphes alterations and more. It's something mystic, maybe poetric, but not necessary logic. Imagine Constantine would have been a keeper, the keeper compound would have looked weird like his manor in "the sword", this is what's happening with the Order somehow.
But well, again it depends on one's taste...
I've been told a few times I should be doing this for a living. Thing is, this might change as time goes by, but currently I'm enjoying being an architect and I want to keep game designing as a hobby. ;)
redleaf on 30/5/2008 at 12:58
Having some trouble with an objective -- who saved me and brought me here and what does he want.
I have the light and dark stones. Just about everyone except the guardians, zone monsters, Vlain, and the guy guarding the passage to the North are ko'd.
I was running around with this Book Of Names, wondering what to do with it. Read some posts about putting it in Thales' room(???), but I had already tried giving it to Vlain, and he was happy to see it! Told me to drop it right there (he was beside a small sofa table), and go back to the real world. I Tried dropping it a few other places, but nothing happened.
So, can anyone help me find the answer to Obj 1; and who gets the book: Thales or Vlain???
kamyk on 30/5/2008 at 13:10
Thales is the one next to the sofa and table. Vlain is the guy guarding the passage to the north (he wants the Drac scriptures). (You got the names backwards). Thales is the one who saved you and brought you there, and also the one who wants the book of names.
Sounds like somehow you skipped meeting Thales the first time.
DrK on 30/5/2008 at 13:29
Wait, what the hell ? :confused:
How could you have the other objectives without having the first one ticked off !? Once you take the instructions book from Thales, which is on the desk near the south star key, it ticks off the first objective and reveals the others. :weird:
Sticky Fingers on 30/5/2008 at 14:36
Maybe someone's been peeking under spoiler cover in this thread? :D :tsktsk:
ShardofTruth on 30/5/2008 at 15:27
Quote Posted by DrK
Furthermore I wanted to do something different, something unique : how many keepers-like fms are there around here ? 4 or 5, out of 700 ? Now you can add mine in the list.
Exactly. I know only a few FMs with a Keeper complex inside: A Keeper's Betrayal, Equilibrium, A Dire Venture and Calendras Legacy: A Winter's Eve (which is the best). If someone here knows other good Keeper FM, please pm me.
In Thief Gold, there was only the tutorial and a bit in The Haunted Cathedral; in Thief II there was nothing.
If you compare Rocksbourg 3 to the Keeper's library and compound in Deadly Shadows, DrK FM wins hands down.
So I'm really a fan of this mission type and DrK delievered more I would ever hope to play.:thumb:
redleaf on 30/5/2008 at 17:41
Kamyk:
Hmmmm, Seems like I did get the names reversed. Vlain is the one who guards the North passage AND shows you the way out? The one you'd better not harm?
I did see Thales earlier -- while looking for the North Star entrance. Not exactly a 'meeting'. I don't remember having any conversation with him. I remember trying to get stuff without being seen because the ai were trying to kill me whenever they saw me.
DrK: I did pick up a key in those rooms, and probably the instruction book, but I don't remember about that. The only two objectives I have ticked off are:
#2. Find Book Called Drac's Scriptures and Give To Soul Vlain.
I had read a memo somewhere about how 'difficult' Vlain was being, and of the demands he made on anyone who wanted his assistance. At first I tried to knock him out, but he was unconkable. And to my surprise, he also wasn't hostile. So I tried just walking up to him. He asked me to bring him a book.
#5. You stole half the loot.
Self-Explanatory.
No other objectives have ticked off for me. So what did I do wrong? Are they supposed to tick in a particular order?
Book Of Names:
At first I thought the book was an ingredient to make a key. But I managed to make all those, with luck and over 4 hrs running all over the North. I tried giving the book to Vlain first, because he was the first one I saw when I got back from the North Star. So the next character I found was Thales in his rooms. I never got any objective about what to do with the book and almost tossed it thinking it was junk.
Sticky Fingers: Of course I did! ;) I searched posts for info about the book, and a couple of other times. The answers were in the spoilers. Believe me, If I had used the spoilers like a walk-thru, it wouldn't have taken me 15 hours to get just this far ... BTW: Aren't we supposed to try and find answers to our questions by searching the thread first?
DrK on 30/5/2008 at 19:54
I don't understand how you could go further in the mission if you didn't meet Thales. There is a big discussion with him and he tells you everything related to the objectives. And to go in the tower and meet Soul Vlain, you must find a key in his quarters (south star key), this means you have to meet him to go any further, it's impossible otherwise.
Also, you're saying you were surprised Soul Vlain was non-hostile. In fact, every souls in the south star is non-hostile at the beginning. I guess as soon as you entered the souls compound you started blackjacking everyone...
Honestly I can't help you because it seems you've done everything wrong since the beginning, and I really don't understand what's going on. Furthermore, to spend so much time reading spoilers in forums isn't the good way with my missions : think and explore. ;)
May I suggest you to restart the mission and play it "normally" ? :p
all on 30/5/2008 at 21:37
I'm curious as to what influenced you in mapping The City (I'm not talking about Rocksbourg). The map we find in the North Star is quite interesting, but where does it come from? There's an interesting post in these forums discussing the layout of the City's map, and the one we have in Rocksbourg is quite different. Is this intentional? :thumb:
