Fidcal on 30/9/2010 at 09:52
I did get past the mines and reached the Keeper's place before but never got inside. There was nothing to be found outside that I recall.
Anyway, I've now moved on to Disorientation as I failed to find enough loot in this one despite a huge effort. Great FM and there was always lots to do. I never got bored but I could see right at the end that running around a city again and again to find the last few items of loot was not for me.
jiansonz on 30/9/2010 at 11:19
Quote Posted by Fidcal
I did get past the
mines and reached the Keeper's place before but never got inside. There was nothing to be found outside that I recall.There is something to be found
outside, but high up.Quote Posted by Fidcal
Anyway, I've now moved on to Disorientation as I failed to find enough loot in this one despite a huge effort. Great FM and there was always lots to do. I never got bored but I could see right at the end that running around a city again and again to find the last few items of loot was not for me.
Haha, I guess it´s different strokes for different people. If I like the design of a mission and there is cleverly hidden loot, I can enjoy searching for the last bits of loot for many hours. Your first Night Watch mission (Infiltration?) is a great example of this, as is Bad Debts (where I eventually found everything, with a little help from some other taffers).
Have fun with Disorientation! It´s excellent.
Melan on 30/9/2010 at 13:50
Sorry to hear you aren't finishing this, but I can relate - sometimes meeting a loot goal is more trouble than it's worth. Have fun with Disorientation; it is built around the same concept but I'd like to think it is better in all respects.
Motley Fool on 28/12/2010 at 05:04
I'm late to the party, but I just discovered this gem of a FM last week, and I have thoroughly enjoyed exploring the city! It took some time to figure out the map, but once I got the hang of it, I couldn't wait to get to the next section of the city to see what surprises there would be. Melan obviously put a lot of time and love into making a level that didn't just contain a lot of "filler" streets to tie together a few houses and shops. Almost every building seemed to have a purpose, and a secret for the enterprising thief to find.
My favorite moment: leaving the landlord's apartment and staring at a glyph on the wall at the end of the hallway, which I was SURE hadn't been there earlier. Followed by my stepping into my own room, looking around quickly without seeing anything, deciding the word "beyond" hadn't meant to go into that room, turning to leave... and finding the other glyph. And, wow, someone left a scroll and key on my bed! It actually gave me chills - that was just marvelous. (And yeah, I wouldn't normally play on Normal, but I've been bitten too many times by other FMs where I've done everything but I'm 200 short on loot and I really, REALLY want to just leave. I didn't realize it would actually alter the puzzles on this one.)
I only wish more of the level had been open to exploration. I was so excited when I succeeded in getting to the abandoned part of the city, and saw a Keeper building that was obviously abandoned (with a statue thrown through a window for good measure), that I turned around and left and finished all the other objectives so I could save that awesome area for last. Alas... as you know, it turned out to be a bit anticlimactic. Same thing with the Hammer Seminary - I was sure I'd find the one working door after passing lots of unfrobbable ones (including a door from the Public Works area, showing the Hammer banner behind it through a window), but it turned out there was no way in.
But oh well. Obviously a lot of work went into the storyline as well, which also shoots "Bad Debts" above many other FMs. In fact, it was SO well done, that I suffered a bit as Garrett probably did trying to piece it all together. The disadvantage of making a natural-sounding scroll is that it refers to things that you (the player) may not know about yet. And in the end, I'm not sure I got it all. So here are some questions about the level, and about the plot.
**** SPOILER NOTICE! ****
Rather than cover huge swaths of text below in blue boxes, let me just advise you to quit reading if you haven't finished this level.
**** SPOILER NOTICE! ****
1) Near the "W" house (south part of the map, near the coal chute) there is a house with an open shutter high above me (there appears to also be a stone window and ledge around the back of the same building down an alley. I could not successfully get up there - was there access to that room/building?
2) Following the path SW of the "W" house takes you to the Lower Locks, which eventually ends at a sewer hole and a Public Works door. However just before you reach that door, there is a building with a large, jagged hole very high up. (i.e. if you were facing the Public Works door, turn 180 degrees around, take a few steps forward, then look up and slightly to the right.) There is a wood underside to the roof, but my rope arrow doesn't reach anywhere near the ground. Is there any access to that room/building?
3) There is a pit in the caves of the thieves' tunnel that drops into water (near a corpse). What was the significance of the room near that water with the lit brazier, bones, broken chest, and Trickster giggling sounds? Was it just another unopenable door?
PLOT QUESTIONS:
4) What was the significance of the Bridge Scroll and Keywell Scroll? (written by "Tanster" and "Umber Eyes"? Who was it that was moving money and goods in and out? Why were the notes on the bridge and in Keywell?
5) The initial tip (you can buy) referred to a man on Whelmins street drinking from "golden cups" and engaged in "dark espionage". Who or what was that about?
Moriarty's book was the most interesting of all the readables. I'm embarrased how long it took me to figure out what he was referring to by the "underground power station to the south", and figuring out where he met his end, but I eventually did. However I still didn't quite follow everything:
6) What was the significance of the power drainage in the city? I even noticed how the first electric light you encounter in Keywell seemed to be experiencing severe power fluctuations... but if there was an explanation for where the power was being diverted, I missed it.
Thanks for helping me tie up some loose ends to an overwhelmingly superb FM!
Melan on 28/12/2010 at 10:34
Thank you for your PM and comments, Motley fool! I wanted to build a mission where you could engage the loose plotlines/background on multiple levels - just finish your objectives relatively easily if you are looking for that; piece together a lot of scattered information to form a picture if you want to. I don't know if this approach is suitable for everyone (probably not), but it is nice to see people like it. The following FM, Disorientation, adds to the puzzle -- it has a more static plot, but otherwise does the whole exploration angle better than Bad Debts, which was my first FM.
However:
1)+3) You cannot get into the apartment across the W house, the Hammer Seminary, Keywell proper, the unopenable door at the usurer's place and the cavern door under the southern power station where Moriarty met his end. I should have made all those doors unfrobbable or otherwise signify they could not be entered, but there you go. Unfortunately, it would not have been possible to open up the areas behind them since the mission is already very close to Dromed limits. As they are, I think both Keywell and that underground room tell you something about the nature of the Keepers/Pagans, so take it as graphical storytelling.
2) You can get up there. Shoot a rope arrow into the edge of the roof of the neighbouring house, or the wooden window shutters; climb up to the arch, then with another rope, to the hole.
4) They are unquestionably master thieves, the best of the best, who are well-versed in conspiracy enough to know how to hide their loot and correspondence. If you are circumspect enough, you may find out more about the pair in Disorientation, and maybe later missions to be built later.
5) That's the owner of the Pan Pipes pub - the tip refers to a small loot cache, but it may also lead to other interesting places through his attic.
6) *Major* spoilers, may be better off left until after Disorientation: Obviously, a lot of the power goes to sustain city blocks, buildings and lights that have no discernible function, are abandoned and in various stages of decay, or are planned so badly (?) that they are staggeringly hard to access even by the standards of ancient cities with a lot of history. These seeming errors are relics of the Keepers' meddling with urban planning for their own ends (something Moriarty, looking for a big picture, had come close to discovering) - hidden areas forming a shadowy counter-image of the real City, now faded and largely empty as the order has lost most of its influence and descended into paranoid conspiracies-within-conspiracies, which is what happens to large, complex power structures built on secrecy.
Anyway, thanks!
FKenFord on 8/11/2011 at 16:03
I feel kind of silly, but I can't seem to get to the donation chute.
I can see it from the balcony opposite the church entrance.
Could someone tell me how to get up there?
Thanks,
Ken
Nightwalker on 8/11/2011 at 19:54
It's easy to miss, actually. Have you seen this room?
Inline Image:
http://i40.tinypic.com/25a7rt1.jpgClimb the stairs.
If not, it's
south of the entrance to Download Seminary. FKenFord on 9/11/2011 at 02:18
Wow. How could I have missed that! Thanks for the help.
Quote Posted by Nightwalker
It's easy to miss, actually. Have you seen this room?
Inline Image:
http://i40.tinypic.com/25a7rt1.jpgClimb the stairs.
If not, it's
south of the entrance to Download Seminary. Melan on 9/11/2011 at 21:57
And I haven't seen the mission in those colours yet. Strange, and interesting! :)
Philflound on 9/11/2012 at 04:31
What is the significance of the gong? I shot an arrow at it and it gonged, but nothing happened.
Phil
