T2 FM. Bad Venture - Old version (Released 12/25/14) - by Soul Tear
trudnicki on 29/12/2014 at 12:20
Quote Posted by Marbrien
I'd appreciate a fairly direct steer on how to get into the
wine cellar in Lady A's area. Thanks.
Marbrien
have U found a
secret area near collector towerdirect spoiler ??
gnartsch on 29/12/2014 at 12:44
OK, 11 hours into the mission and finally satisfied with my loot and bonuses. ;)
I ended up with
6830 loot
11 secrets
Achievements: Desperado, Hammerite, Pioneer, Collector, Agent
That was quite a tough ride!
I really enjoyed it and finding the required stuff in order to complete the mission was not too hard.
(I found about 5K loot after about 4 or 5 hours, all the rest I found after intensive search and some technical assistance - namely TTLL.
However I would not have gotten any of the achievements without glimpsing at the goals-file.)
Some loot was really hidden in a devilish manner, like the goblet in a window and a secret wine-bottle behind.
Unfortunately some things were not so nice, such as the overly confusing semi-lockpickable doors, doors without any key.
Is there a key to the rooms in the sewer and potentially to the dead keeper ?
And the fact that you start with just 1 rope arrow on Expert and no clue in which wooden beam the arrow would either stick or simply break.
Well, finally I found a way to produce a bunch of more rope arrows, but that option was hidden in one of the hardest parts of the map.
Congrats on this map! Lovely!
@Soul Tear:
I noticed a couple of truncated pages in several books. Both in the english version, as well as in the german one.
Would you mind if I provide the corrected texts here?
People could pick it up and you might include it in an updated version later.
Marbrien on 29/12/2014 at 12:56
Quote Posted by trudnicki
Marbrien
have U found a
secret area near collector towerdirect spoiler ??
Yes thanks, I hadn't noticed that
grate first time round. Now, is there any way to turn off that
security camera (it is impervious to a fire arrow)?
Soul Tear on 29/12/2014 at 14:43
Quote Posted by Brethren
I think Judith may be being a bit harsh, but I understand what they are trying to say and there's some truth there. I remember Alexius (author of the now abandoned Hammerite Imperium) used to complain that he couldn't finish any of the missions for his project because he kept running into all of Dromed's limitations (this was pre-New Dark). I couldn't help but think - if you know what Dromed's limitations are, then why are you trying to build missions that surpass them? Seemed like it should be common sense that you would only build within the technical capabilities of what the engine can do.
No offense is meant, ST, your mission is beautiful and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. But I just upgraded my PC about a year ago (it's an i7 with 16 GB RAM, and a Radeon 7970), and there are some sections of the mission that drop into the 20s for fps. Overall the mission runs great for me, but I can't imagine that a PC more than 3-4 years old can run it very smooth. The Thief community isn't all that big anymore, so it seems a shame to eliminate maybe 50% of your potential players. Might be interesting to do a poll sometime to see what the average PC specs are for FM players that are still active in the community, so authors would have a baseline to work off of.
The fact that I had no idea what might be the consequences. I'll launch a full optimization, just to check for errors, but I did not check my mission until the betatesting. When everything was done, I realized that things are not what I imagined them. I was blinded by the possibilities of NewDark .
Nevertheless, there is no turning back. The matter is done.
The choice is this: if the mission would not exist - 0% of the players would be able to play; or the mission looks like for what it is, and (at worst) 50% of the players would be able to play. The question: Which is better to 0 or 50?
I'm sorry that not everyone could play. It's just concatenation of circumstances. Maybe I can do the playable mission for everyone, but it will look a lot worse, and it is not the priority project, the main thing for me - the second part.
I got some advices from Xorak, but I doubt that it will give us a significant increase in performance.
I do not want to build a primitive FM, this is not interesting for me. And I can not buy new PC for everyone . Alternative?
Soul Tear on 29/12/2014 at 14:51
Quote Posted by Judith
Sorry if I sounded harsh Brethren, I meant more or less what you said. ST's response sounded a bit like "I'm an artist and can't be bothered with such earthly (performance) concerns". I guess that might be a language problem. Sure the mission is beautiful, and it would be a waste if there was no update.
Over time, this project will improve, but so far I have no any experience, just observation and intuition.
In addition, not all betatesters worked well.
Soul Tear on 29/12/2014 at 15:05
Quote Posted by Judith
As in your example: the way use of crowbar was communicated to the players was wrong, at least in my case there were no sounds of wood planks giving way or something like that. There was no feedback for me that I'm going in the right direction, I had to read it on the forums.
Readme:
Quote:
DIFFICULTYIn this mission, I'm trying to avoid some stereotypes you might find in the old FMs. In particular,
I'm using a different intensity values of the Receptor/Source settings than you probably got used
of (I mean the situation when you'll have to use an inventory item on the outside item).
Quote:
Same goes for doors. It might sound harsh again, but nobody really cares how real life looks like in games, translated 1:1. The more important thing is: how can you use game systems to communicate with the player, make him learn something, then give him a challenge and some fun stuff to do. The reason behind door handles, or doors without door handles, color-coded objects and many other things is to show players what they can or can't do, using only visual means. Discovering game or world rules this way is satisfying, and in some cases almost subconscious (e.g. the "red barrels rule" in shooters). This way you avoid frustrating trial and error style gameplay.
You have convinced me. Most likely it was an exploration. If many players do not like it, I do not mind to change these doors. ;)
Soul Tear on 29/12/2014 at 15:12
First post updated. Added lootlist. Thanks to Fortuni.:)
Judith on 29/12/2014 at 15:17
Quote Posted by Soul Tear
Over time, this project will improve, but so far I have no any experience, just observation and intuition.
In addition, not all betatesters worked well.
You did great then. If DromEd doesn't have any performance checking tools, seek advice in T2 Editors Guild. Maybe someone already wrote guidelines or a tutorial, that would be really useful. Also it would be great if DromEders had some tools to measure performance (in DromEd or external). For example T3Ed, as awful as it can be sometimes, it has a very useful metric in perspective viewport called "Lights that touch too many objects". It shows lights colored from green to red, and if anything is red you can be sure you'll see a framerate drop. Even a 5 GHz CPU won't help, as this seems to be engine, not hardware limitation.
Anyway, since your PC is pretty decent, you can assume that any major FPS drop on your end (more than 5-8 frames) is something possibly to worry about. 50 FPS in your case is alright, but it may be 10 FPS for others.
Soul Tear on 29/12/2014 at 15:22
Quote Posted by gnartsch
@Soul Tear:
I noticed a couple of truncated pages in several books. Both in the english version, as well as in the german one.
Would you mind if I provide the corrected texts here?
People could pick it up and you might include it in an updated version later.
Of course :thumb:
Random_Taffer on 29/12/2014 at 15:33
Quote Posted by Kurhhan
Sorry for naming mission but I prefer 30 fps with a big amount of object and other stuff than for example 60fps in Kingsbridge where is just nearly empty rooms and spaces.
There certainly are some Thief missions that are not detailed and contain lots of empty to nearly empty rooms, but- from what I've played- Kingsbridge isn't one of them.
Although the mission runs well enough for me, in general I'd prefer play-ability over visuals any day. Changing things up from the standard fare is great (even encouraged!) but generally an authors note or clear hint is preferred if there's a non-obvious change like with the crowbar in this mission. In Thief generally, when you use an object with another object, it either works the first time or will never work, so most of the confusion is totally understandable. As I said, changing this isn't a problem at all, but there should be a hint of some kind or some sort of authors note in the readme telling users how to use the crowbar. Though there was a note about a change when using objects, a more clear hint would have been better in my opinion.
In real life, sometimes I have to try my key more than once to unlock my front door. Should I go ahead and make a Thief mission where keys may or may not work the first time you try them?
This mission is great so far, by the way. Everything looks great. It's tough, but that's not a bad thing.