Dark_Garrett on 7/1/2015 at 21:16
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
I never found what I assume [spoiler]is the key to access the exit area...the door in the guard post next to the double portcullis[/spoiler]...anybody gimme a hint.
The
key is on the other side of the door, that area is only accessible on expert/freedom. Once you cure the town the portcullis opens and you can explore the area and get that key.Twist on 7/1/2015 at 21:26
SlyFoxx: I think this only applies on the Freedom difficulty level... so if you're playing one of the other difficulties, don't reveal any of the spoilers. But to get the key to that door:
Hint:
You have to get to the other side of the gate. Within the mission's story, what might you do to have the gates opened?
Bigger Hint:
You have to cure the plague in the city before the gates will open.
Outright spoiler for solving the main mission puzzle on Freedom difficulty:
Use the four ampoules on the four frobbable fireplaces to spread the cure in gas form throughout the town and cure the plague. If you used your ampoules on air arrows to free the wanderers, you can't cure the plague in the town and open your way to freedom. When the plague is cured, the gates will open, and then you'll find the key to those doors on a well-lit desk near the other side of the door.
SlyFoxx on 7/1/2015 at 22:31
Oh, OK...I still have a [spoiler]few more ampules to use[/spoiler]
Twist on 7/1/2015 at 23:25
A few more? Do you have all four of them?
You'll need all four ampoules to cure the plague. If you have less than four left, I think you'll need to go back to a previous save. I loved this mission, but this might be a legitimate criticism: I'm not sure the "choice" between "freeing" the wanderers or curing everyone is fairly signposted, or I'm not sure it's fair to only have four ampoules in the mission. What if you waste just one of them experimenting? Particularly given that most Thief players tend to enjoy experimenting... (Or maybe I missed something and there are more ampoules available somewhere... *shrug*)
Tannar on 8/1/2015 at 00:17
There are only four ampoules. Petranilla's diary clearly lays out the choice you have to make. It's true that you don't know in advance exactly what the consequences of your choice will be. That was intentional. But there are hints that finding a way to disperse the gas will both rid the city of the plague and free the wanderers. You have to really pay attention to what you're reading and put the pieces together. It was meant to be a bit of a puzzler.
Twist on 8/1/2015 at 00:40
Oh, I got it. I figured it out and remembered exactly where and how I figured it out. Like I said in my post, it might be a legitimate criticism. I'm just kind of mentioning it for the sake of discussion.
It hadn't even occurred to me that it could be a problem until I saw a few people in this thread have a problem with it. Where I think the problem might be is that there are only four ampoules, and you absolutely must not waste any of them. You can't accidentally or intentionally experiment with a single one of them. In the OMs, for example, if a main quest progress or a puzzle requires a single fire arrow, you'll have the opportunity to find multiple fire arrows in that same mission (or you'll start with one and be able to find another in the mission).
This gives the player a fair margin of error and a little more freedom to experiment, yet still leave them the ability to complete the puzzle or mission. I know that in this mission it's for an optional objective, which gives the overall design an out. But it's kind of the "right" way to complete the mission, even if Eternauta allows one to sort of "fail" the mission yet complete it.
In fact, that's something I really like about both the Last Lighthouse Keeper and Kingsbridge: (major spoiler for both missions, so don't reveal if you haven't played both): They both allow the player to "complete" the mission yet sort of not "win" it. In Lighthouse, if you don't find and deliver the gem (an optional objective), you don't really get the happy ending. Same thing here: if you don't dump all four ampoules in all four fireplaces (an optional objective), you don't really get the "winning" ending. I think that's both fun (I like consequence in my games) and a courageous thing for the designer to do.
Tannar on 8/1/2015 at 00:50
I agree that a little margin of error would have been nice, though it is much more like real life this way. I don't know exactly what Eternauta's thinking on this was. Perhaps he'll read this and respond. And I agree with you about TLLK and this mission, I like the idea of having multiple possible endings. If nothing else, it adds to the replay value.
SlyFoxx on 8/1/2015 at 03:07
For those who might be wondering...I'm good to go. I've played enough missions that these sort of things rarely catch me off guard even though I didn't find P's key until waaaaay late in the mission because I just didn't get the clue on the note. I read it early but it just didn't click in my mind until MUCH later. Funny that...my wife watched me play the whole mission on the big TV (first time in 14 years she's ever done that) and made the connection but failed to let me in on it. She also solved the letter puzzle. I think I'll keep her around a while longer.:cheeky:
:sly:
Eternauta on 8/1/2015 at 16:23
4 fireplaces, 4 ampoules. Simply, I didn't want to confuse the player (not a great thought, eh?).
Twist, thank you for the constructive criticism. I'll keep it in mind. :D
Quote Posted by SlyFoxx
For those who might be wondering...I'm good to go. I've played enough missions that these sort of things rarely catch me off guard even though I didn't find P's key until waaaaay late in the mission because I just didn't get the clue on the note. I read it early but it just didn't click in my mind until MUCH later. Funny that...my wife watched me play the whole mission on the big TV (first time in 14 years she's ever done that) and made the connection but failed to let me in on it. She also solved the letter puzzle. I think I'll keep her around a while longer.:cheeky:
:sly:
:cheeky:
Twist on 9/1/2015 at 21:19
Quote Posted by Eternauta
Twist, thank you for the constructive criticism. I'll keep it in mind. :D
I just noticed you responded to this thread. Just to be clear, I didn't actually have a real
criticism here. I just thought it was an interesting design dilemma to discuss.
So to make sure you understand how I feel about your mission and in case in you missed my comments earlier in the thread:
Quote Posted by Twist
Eternauta, I loved this mission, and I can tell it was thoroughly beta tested. It is unusually polished, well-balanced and well-paced. This is particularly impressive given the different and new gameplay elements it introduces and seamlessly integrates into classic Thief gameplay.
The mission is pretty enough that my wife saw it over my shoulder and commented, "Wow that looks cool -- what are you playing?"
Thanks again for this great holiday treat, Eternauta. :)
:thumb:
I savored a wonderful, snowy holiday afternoon and evening playing through this mission two full times. Thank you!
