nicked on 9/12/2022 at 16:15
You're not soft-locked if you get into the theatre before getting the theatre key, because there's another copy of it inside the theatre.
vfig on 10/12/2022 at 18:20
Quote Posted by nicked
It was designed to be a difficult challenge, since it's more-or-less the climax of the mission.
i just played this and thought that area really sucked (a blemish on an otherwise great mission). i was under half hp by the time i got there.
Quote:
it was designed to … reward patience and planning.
how can i plan when i dont know whats coming? enemies spawn without warning after i
read the plaque, putting me on the back foot already; and half of the ones that spawn hang around at the only path forward. the entire area is wide open; there are almost no fully dark areas, and nothing at all to block line of sight once i am seen. no corners to retreat to. and because the enemies respawn, i cant even use the tools in my inventory to get rid of them. in the end i just leroy jenkinsed, ran past everything and outran them. the next bit in the building with the things in close quarters was also painful (i was down to three hp by then). did they respawn too? i assumed they would too, like the others of their kind, but didnt stop to find out. died a bunch in there too, because again there was nowhere to hide, and one hit was enough to end me. it wasnt an enjoyable challenge at all.
thankfully it didnt ruin my overall enjoyment of the mission, but that whole area felt like a huge misstep.
nicked on 10/12/2022 at 22:00
Again, sorry if people are getting stuck there. It didn't come up as a problem during testing but it's clearly causing issues for some. Maybe I should have disabled respawning on Normal or something, for players that prefer the gung ho approach.
vfig on 11/12/2022 at 00:23
Quote Posted by nicked
Maybe I should have disabled respawning on Normal or something, for players that prefer the gung ho approach.
like, i
don't prefer the gung ho approach at all. but i felt like i wasnt given any other options. it wasnt any one thing, it was all these things together:
* enemies spawning without warning
* brand new enemy type with unfamiliar reactions, capabilities, and behaviour
* hostile geometry that doesnt provide much in the way of safe places to observe, and no clear places to safely retreat
* ranged attacks without cover objects to move behind, and with very limited room to dodge around
* many ranged enemies all at once
* uncertain objectives for the whole area, so trying to figure out what to do while under fire
* late game, so low health and supplies likely
* enemies respawning, so those supplies actually wasted when trying this approach to dealing with them
* again, late game so player is tired and low on patience
this last point is partly on me: i try to do fms in a single session when possible; and generally (because i think it makes for better videos and is usually more engaging for me to play this way) i avoid quickloading, so mistakes and missteps cost me more than they might with other playstyles.
so it wasnt just the respawning. and for what its worth, disabling respawning on Normal wouldnt have fixed things for me: there's no way i would restart and replay the whole mission up to this point on a lower difficulty setting this late into it: that would take too much time (and also, for the videos, i try to approach every fm completely blind).
Taylor on 11/12/2022 at 14:20
The part of the underground cavern where the fast zombies spawned were almost like how I'd imagine the 6th part of Harry Potter, when Harry and Dumbledore go for the medallion. Only there is four of these pedestrals around. Of course that helps little, if you are not familiar with Harry Potter.
Actually perhaps with a single exception you could stand in a dark spot before reading the plaques, giving you a head start against the zombies.
The two farther pedestals were the more difficult ones, because one of them had a hard exit jump and the other was on the end of the long archway, so the skulls had plenty of target practice opportunity, in case they spotted you.
Didn't know about them respawning though. I only killed some skulls in the central tower where they were in a small enough number at a time, so it seemed easier to murder them :ebil: (without the risk of the entire area ganging up on me) -- they did not respawn for me so even if they do so, if you don't dally there too much, you are fine.
I thought the place as difficult as it should be. Maybe annoying a bit, but I wouldn't expect expert to be a cakewalk :)
(can't say anything about normal, maybe if it's similarily difficult it should've done a bit easier)
Stingm on 11/12/2022 at 18:47
I have made it through on normal without getting killed and it was very fun and challenging. I was shocked when reading the plaques and the zombies etc appeared. I went back the way I came and ran until in a dark area. It was very challenging but also very doable if I took my time. I will say that if I decide to play hard, I imagine it might be a lot worse. But overall, another excellent mission by nicked. I have also played both missions in order and it was even better.
zajazd on 13/12/2022 at 10:26
This mission is obviously in the top 5%. I played on Normal and fled and hid from the flying skulls.
Wormrat on 19/12/2022 at 17:24
Finished on Hard with only ~4000 loot and 1 secret. Very cool mission, good sense of progression. The city layout is interesting and feels liberating, but is also nice and "tidy" and not overwhelming. I completed the side objectives but definitely need to explore the city again and see what else I can find. (I also need to finish Catacombs of Knoss... :erm:) Thanks nicked!
EDIT: Wow, I'm noticing lots of cool stuff and scenes I didn't catch the first time around. I think I was rushing a bit because I wanted to get to the underground bits. There's a lot to see and do and it's all tied together nicely with the setup and characters.
mungomango on 22/12/2022 at 10:22
I'm immersed in this mission right now and I'm loving it, so I just wanted to drop by and give a huge thank you to you Nicked for a brilliant piece of work.
I think you've got the balance just right throughout, it's a classic! I played the first Knoss mission and thoroughly enjoyed it too.
Once again, I salute you sir for all the hard work and effort you put in - it's really, really appreciated!! Warms my cockles to know good old Thief is still going after all these years :)
