Eshaktaar on 14/8/2003 at 23:43
Dafydd,
The attic,[SPOILER]The third attic is accessible through a panel in the entrance area, above the main stairs. There is another panel near the showroom where you found the Horn.[/SPOILER]
The optional objective,[SPOILER]In the Captain's safe there is a letter (labelled as Captain's Letter). Read it, and you'll trigger an additional objective.[/SPOILER]
billdun262 on 14/8/2003 at 23:46
[SPOILER]Where do I find the wall safe key[/SPOILER]
Eshaktaar on 14/8/2003 at 23:53
billdun262,[SPOILER]It is on the same table where you find the testament. Go into the room marked as STUDY on the map (south of the showroom where the Horn was). Examine everything closely... there's a secret room in there.[/SPOILER]
deadman on 15/8/2003 at 00:32
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Originally posted by Melissa I'm writing to weigh in on my personal assessment of the puzzle clues so far. I have to disagree with folks who have said that they were too hard or too vague. For the most part, I've found the puzzles/clues in this mission to be the best of ALL the missions I've played, and that's saying something. I only had to run to the forums twice:In defense of me and the rest who asked a whole myriad of questions, the sheer number of posts containing spoilers is a testament to the fact that, for the majority, this mission
is too hard to finish without some major help. We must remember that we all aren't as good Sherlock Homles' as you seem to be, Melissa :cheeky:. Just imagine if the forums weren't here, or if this fellow Eshaktaar appeared out of nowhere with the mission, then disappeared with no e-mail (or perhaps got so annoyed by all the questions in his e-mails he simply deleted everything related to this mission).. Imagine how the majority would solve the puzzles. I'd imagine most of us would tear our hairs out and search through the place twelve times looking for this lever or that clue; and we'd have to print out all the texts offering clues to even think of making a headway. I again think this is an incredible mission, but I merely think, for myself, that more clues would be very nice. Perhaps even adding "Garrett-sense" where, like in Xarax's masterpiece, Garrett "Hmm"s whenever coming close to a hidden lever, so we know to look around. ycatx offered that players weren't as smart as he gave them credit for (in different words, but that was the message), and I don't think this at all. I merely think some don't notice as much as others and some don't put 2 & 2 together as well, so it's good to have buyable hints at start-up, or hint scrolls 'for idiots' to be found. We scheme more than many others because Thief is a stealth game; anyone who wants to be successful has had to become quite patient and resourceful.
That's my 2 cents :thumb:.
deadman.
P.S. Why does Linda seem to beta
every FM under the sun? :weird:
Lady Rowena on 15/8/2003 at 02:19
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Originally posted by deadman Nopes. All custom objects don't have any name; the pole is just a floating 3D object, same with the donuts, all the various diary entries. It just appears all custom object names fail to show up (the Hammerite head is labelled "Skull" because I imagine you merely changed the model name of a regular skull). Could it be the setup of my Thief folders that is causing the distress? When DromEd'ing after the clean format of my HD I noticed any custom object names of my own (at least those referenced in the appropriate str file) didn't work in-game; I had to use GayleSaver's custom scripts to get anything to work. I'd ask someone that got your mission from #thief-fms and in particular, my fserve, but I doubt anyone obtained this from me in the short time that it's been out (and I therefore can't ask someone else if they're having the same problem as I am). This happened in the past too, and I can only say I tried everything then that was suggested with nothing working. After a while, the problem mysteriously cleared up :confused:. I can only hope the same happens for me now.
It is a rather annoying bug (on my end) though. You can't imagine the stress one goes through juggling through dozens of scrolls, papers, parchments or keys, each without even a description of "Scroll" or "Key" :weird:.
deadman. It also happened to me during betatesting. Some of the betas wasn't able to see the names of the objects.
The solution was to put the files objnames.str and titles.str in a folder named "English" and then into the "Strings" folder.
Shade on 15/8/2003 at 02:21
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Originally posted by deadmanP.S. Why does Linda seem to beta every FM under the sun? :weird: And also, why do I never hear about beta tests? Its like you just get an e-mail saying "You've been one of the select privlidged few to test my fm!"
Lady Rowena on 15/8/2003 at 02:21
Great mission Eshkataar, congratulations! I have no words, but this is because of my poor English. ;)
I have not finished yet, but I can say it's beautiful. Great work! :)
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Dafydd on 15/8/2003 at 02:43
[Eshaktaar]
Eek. I actually had grabbed the captain's letter... I just forgot to read it in all the excitement!
I think I know how to achieve that optional objective.
Other than that, I'm almost done; I'm ready to leave (if I can only find the stupid sewer again! In the [spoiler]empty Robert Farrington tomb[/spoiler], right?) From what I've read here, I understand I have a chunk left to go... the mage stuff and something involving cute, cuddly animals that belch noxious fumes.
I have the antiquary letter; I'm not exactly sure what to do with it.
Before I leave the manor again...
[spoiler]I believe there is another secret under a floor tile in the entry hall; but I ran all over there (drawing a whole lot of attention... I reloaded, of course) and didn't find any floor tile that lit up. I'd like to get all the secrets, just to see what's behind them; can you tell me where that silly thing is?[/spoiler]
Thanks,
Dafydd
smithpd on 15/8/2003 at 03:39
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Originally posted by deadman In defense of me and the rest who asked a whole myriad of questions, the sheer number of posts containing spoilers is a testament to the fact that, for the majority, this mission is too hard to finish without some major help.I am one of the beta testers. I'll give you my take on this, although I cannot deny having some bias. Obviously, I am too close to it.
The mission certainly was too difficult in the early stages of beta testing. However, in my opinion, the difficulty issue was largely fixed by much better clues and better placement of clues. We recruited a second group of testers to try the new set of clues so they would not be tainted by memory. They had a few questions but no serious complaints, so we all thought it was ready.
I believe that almost every puzzle has a direct clue in writing that is hard to miss if you think about it and remember it. The problem is thinking and remembering. That is really quite difficult to do when there are so many puzzles. The problem is solved nicely by Melissa's approach of taking notes. That is why she has a different opinion. But not many players will do that. If there were only one puzzle, I think 90% of the players would get it. With 10 or so puzzles, the probability of missing one or two, even with good clues, is very high. So I think it is partly a question of numbers, not necessarily the difficulty of individual puzzles. When I played it the second or third time, I thought to myself, "This is really much too easy now." But I held my tongue because I knew this would not be the reaction of the first-time player. It is a difficult judgement when you can be a first-time player only once.
When I read the posts here it is clear to me that many questions are asked by people who did not read or remember the clues. There is nothing wrong with that. These people are certainly not stupid, but maybe they are suffering from information overload. The story and the clues do come to you in rapid-fire. In addition, a great many of the posts are repeats -- people did not read answers already given. I think this partly explains the sheer number of posts. That, and the sheer number of puzzles.
That said, I agree that the mission is difficult in the aggregate, but I think that is one thing that makes it fun to play. I would bet that if you played the mission again and read the texts more closely, you might kick yourself for not getting the obvious the first time around. :)
deadman on 15/8/2003 at 04:13
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Originally posted by smithpd The problem is thinking and remembering. That is really quite difficult to do when there are so many puzzles. The problem is solved nicely by Melissa's approach of taking notes. That is why she has a different opinion. But not many players will do that. If there were only one puzzle, I think 90% of the players would get it. With 10 or so puzzles, the probability of missing one or two, even with good clues, is very high. So I think it is partly a question of numbers, not necessarily the difficulty of individual puzzles. When I played it the second or third time, I thought to myself, "This is really much too easy now." But I held my tongue because I knew this would not be the reaction of the first-time player. It is a difficult judgement when you can be a first-time player only once.I agree with your analysis 100%, smithpd :thumb:. Personally, I
did read all the texts, firstly because one scroll may be infinitely more valuable than 100 golden tiaras, and secondly because (if memory serves me) Eshaktaar noted that every readable contained clues to puzzles either here or in the FM's readme file. My problem is I am terribly forgetful; even at this young age of 20 I can't seem to remember the events of a few months past, let alone a few years. The same goes for FMs; I may remember certain definitive moments or bits of architectural eye-candy, but other than this I'm basically playing an FM for the first time
each time I play it, unless I do so on a regular basis. I don't take notes (too lazy); but I probably would be mirroring Melissa's sentiments if I had. I think the clues are definitely adequate enough, but as you said, it is the quantity of puzzles and clues which really make it a bit overbearing. The perfect scenario I would envision would be to construct an FM in a way that bits of information spring up only when they are needed. This is obviously an impossibility for all but the most linear of FMs as one can go one place or another, solve this puzzle or that first unless it is simply impossible to solve one puzzle before another (which goes back to a question of being linear or non-linear). So I really don't know the solution to a puzzle-rich FM other than coming here to the forums and seeking out help. I was partly thinking of the problems one would face if a place like TTLG didn't exist, or (as I said), the author didn't even help players in e-mails because of time constraints or whatever. In that case, perhaps, a good in-depth hint file would suffice (perhaps even a UHS hint file) and I'd imagine this to be my biggest suggestion for an addition should Eshaktaar decide to provide us with an update or improved (less bugged for instance) version.
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I would bet that if you played the mission again and read the texts more closely, you might kick yourself for not getting the obvious the first time around. :) Read above, especially about the memory problems and sheer number of puzzles/readables :joke:.
As I said before; a great FM.. It easily succeeds all but the most classic of original missions (and even fan missions!) and is a fine example of a "labor of love". All us would-be DromEders are humbled at your skill, attention to detail, dedication, atmosphere, .... The list could go on :). I am reading a guide to writing novels by John Braine, and read that one ever only, or should ever only write for themselves. If it is true that DromEd'ing is, at it's purist, an act of creation for the author (or itself, as Braine later offers on the subject of writing), I can only thank Eshaktaar in a most sincere way that I am glad he decided to share this with the world. Long live a bit of creation as opposed to destruction! Long live writing novels and building fan missions for their own sake! :thumb:
deadman.
