BR4ZIL on 7/7/2023 at 19:02
I never played with "auto-pickup" items on picking up the body, I haven't tested it, but I imagine that's the only way to pick that ring then? After many FMs, I think this might be the first one to force the usage of that mechanic :p
Either that or the ring is on the red-dressed woman, but its "inside" her or the frobbable zone is very small, I shall test it more later today.
Following what @Galaer said, I would also like to point out that not getting a "general alert" on the map is almost impossible on this FM, the guards alert themselves by looking at prisoners inside the cells, and there are sound "holes" due to the secret passages, so the alert sounds seem to propagate quickly through multiple zones. Hopefully, there's an elegant solution to this without changing the cool "prison escape" feel of the mission, where all hell breaks loose as you free the prisoners.
I will also test the switch you mentioned @fortuni, I had a feeling I couldn't switch off the arrow-shooting turrets in the dungeon the "Hashashins" are in, as soon as you go through the normal door to that dungeon, the turrets activate and start shooting at the defenseless (and mission-critical, on expert difficulty) prisoners, these are not the hashashins, these random civilians in the cell.
downwinder on 7/7/2023 at 19:23
i just replayed this mission on expert and had a mission complete only short like 200 loot and 1 secrets not found, but the pick pocket said something like 20/26 pockets picked, but plenty of loot to finish mission
pit key wasn't needed to complete mission, just gave more loot and a bit more to explore and one door was able to be open from pit key side for 2 ways to leave the pit
as far as turret switch the fastest i was able to double frob it, the turret was able to get only 1 arrow off at guy in cell but he took it in the knee so he was ok, as he was an adventurer
fun mission, but there is no way to ghost it, a.i's appear out of thin air in some area's and at end i seen another guy by front doors after i did pit, so i am sure there is a trigger there
you can use the bed switch to access basement but author added a trigger for turrets activation on both sides so the way by cells is best to turn it off
fortuni on 8/7/2023 at 13:08
@ BR4ZIL
Just replayed this mission and you're correct, the gem ring on the lady in red can only be collected if she is both KOd and if you have auto pickup enabled. Yep weird, don't think I have come across this before.
The turret opposite the civilians is activated when you go through the door from the main cell block and immediately starts shooting at the civilians, so if you not quick enough to get to the lever to turn off the turret they will die and the mission fails. However the turret opposite the Hashishans does not become activated, even though it is also linked to the same lever as the first turret. So it is easy to fail the mission by letting the civilian get killed, but not sure how to get the Hashishans get killed unless you kill them yourself with your sword.
PS. I'm playing on hard, the set up may be different on expert.
@Galaer
Not sure exactly what your problem is. The turret opposite the Hashishans can't kill them as it never becomes active (they can die if you kill them yourself with your sword). I have played all they way to the end of the mission and the Hashishans are still happily locked in their cell. I don't think there is a timer in this mission, I think you may have experienced one of those odd bugs whereby a major objective failed due to the oddity of the Thief engine.
However as said above set up maybe different on expert. Time to play again.
Galaer on 8/7/2023 at 17:03
Quote Posted by fortuni
@Galaer
Not sure exactly what your problem is. The turret opposite the Hashishans can't kill them as it never becomes active (they can die if you kill them yourself with your sword). I have played all they way to the end of the mission and the Hashishans are still happily locked in their cell. I don't think there is a timer in this mission, I think you may have experienced one of those odd bugs whereby a major objective failed due to the oddity of the Thief engine.
You don't understand the problem. I did my ghost run and wanted to enter blue block with Hashishans from other side without activating turret killing prisoners. So I opened Hashishans cell around 1 hour on the clock, but I don't hear their footsteps. I checked their cell and they were dead. I'm guessing that usually inactive turret activates at some point and kills them, but it's not indicated anywhere. Objective to free Hashishans is still not completed, but it's not failed either. To complete this objective Hashishans must run to escape room, which can be unlocked only by them. In other words you can still continue this mission, but it's impossible to finish it. That's pretty much a hardlock and since it's nowhere indicated, it's very confusing situation.
So my suggestion for dml is if Hashishans will die - fail free Hashishans objective, so mission will fail immediately.
fortuni on 8/7/2023 at 17:51
Hopefully Glypher can work out what happened to you, but it does not look like that turret becomes active when playing on hard, the only link attached to that turret is the lever to switch it off, so how come they got killed whilst still locked inside their cell. It's a mystery, as is why didn't the objective fail and thus the mission.
Edit: Galaer playing on expert and hard the turret opposite the Hashishans becomes active when you enter the blue corridor from the cell block area but it does not fire any bolts at the Hashishans, I can stand in front of the active turret and never get attacked by it. What I'm guessing is there is a problem with that turret firing it's bolts but at a later time it did fire some random bolts killing your Hashishans.
Galaer on 9/7/2023 at 11:47
Quote Posted by fortuni
Hopefully Glypher can work out what happened to you, but it does not look like that turret becomes active when playing on hard, the only link attached to that turret is the lever to switch it off, so how come they got killed whilst still locked inside their cell. It's a mystery, as is why didn't the objective fail and thus the mission.
Edit: Galaer playing on expert and hard the turret opposite the Hashishans becomes active when you enter the blue corridor from the cell block area but it does not fire any bolts at the Hashishans, I can stand in front of the active turret and never get attacked by it. What I'm guessing is there is a problem with that turret firing it's bolts but at a later time it did fire some random bolts killing your Hashishans.
You are checking wrong turret. I'm not talking about malfunctioning turret that activates when you get close. This turret kills only other prisoners and when that happens it will fail "don't let prisoners to die" objective and fail the whole mission. This turret never attacks Hashishans. Moreover in my run this turret wasn't activated yet and prisoners were still alive. However there is 2nd turret in this room without any lever connected to it. This turret is inactive, but patrollers never go close enough to Hashishans to kill them plus cell gate is closed, so only projectiles can kill them. That's why I believe this 2nd turret is involved.
As for Thief engine bug - there is always a reason behind death. I never seen AI die without any hazard or enemy involved. I know that sometimes it's possible to trigger some events way too early, but you said that Hashishans death isn't connected to any event. So that's not possible. Something else must be involved in their killing and that's probably this other turret.
fortuni on 9/7/2023 at 11:59
I'm not checking the wrong turret. When you enter the blue corridor from the main prison block both turret become active, that is they move from looking down at the ground to looking forwards towards to cell blocks, but it is only the turret opposite the civilians cell block that actually fire bolts. There something buggy with the turret opposite the Hashishans cell block, it does not fire bolts, whether this was purposely set this way by the author I can not say, but it is active as in the fact it has gone from being inactive to raising its head to face to Hashishans. As I said earlier I think this turret not firing bolts when active is what caused you Hashishans to be killed because for some reason whilst you were elsewhere in the map it did fire some bolts at the Hashishans. Why should one turret work correctly and one incorrectly I can't say, I'm guessing they are the same models and I can't see any difference in their Dromed properties.
Also if you enter the corridor from the other end (ie the end from the guard post) you're right neither turret becomes active, that is until you approach the turret opposite the civilians. When I played this way neither turret ever became active and no Hashishan was killed.
Ps. Both turrets are linked to the switch off lever.
BR4ZIL on 10/7/2023 at 12:53
@fortuni
Indeed, i went back to my save and was happy to see I could grab that gold ring off the red-clothed lady using auto-pick up. After much trial, i still managed to "technically" not KO or kill anyone by the sheer power of reloading and saving until the prisoner tree-man could annihilate most of the guards alongside the red lady.
The faulty turret indeed disables if one quickly activates it twice.
@Galaer & @fortuni
I might be able to give insight as to how the 2 Hashishans died, I also spent about 1 hour in the FM and when I finally got to the cell they were at, there was 1 female guard frantically hitting the cell bars close to where one of them was, I am not sure how, but maybe both of them slowly crept up to the bars and got killed by the female guard?
I was also forced to lure these guards back to the main cell hall and let them be killed by the treeman, as otherwise, they were in a state of permanent alert due to the Hashishans.
It seems huge AI fights is one of the trademarks of Ben Hur's FMs, as his Sisterhood saga also features huge chunks of forced AI fights.
fortuni on 12/7/2023 at 17:28
Glypher has found the issue with the turret opposite the Hashishans
As soon as the player enters the section of the corridor where the civilians are both turrets are activated. But the turret opposite the Hashishans does not fire since it has the M-Front Gate Guard meta-property set. This turret starts firing only if a weapon is raised in front of it or the sounds of combat are heard.
This explains why all 3 of us experienced different scenarios with that turret and the killing of the Hashishans (or not), it all depends on how players approach the blue corridor, carry a weapon and hey presto the Hashishans get killed, cause a fight nearby and bingo they get killed even if your not in the immediate vicinity of that turret/Hashishans.
