mopgoblin on 25/8/2003 at 13:52
Quote:
Originally posted by Cerebration I'm sure many others did this - I rushed down the stairs to the door of the servants' quarters and waited with blackjack at the ready to intercept him.I did the same thing (minus the violent rampage, as I'd already removed all the guards I could find in a search for one of those keys). After a few minutes of waiting, I took the most direct route upstairs (figuring that if he had got stuck or delayed then I'd meet him on the way up). I seem to recall setting a mine or something in the doorway to the servants' quarters too, just in case...
Goldie81 on 25/8/2003 at 15:04
Wow, wait a minute!
The crypt was really alot bigger than it was in the FM? A person here wrote that he had to cut 90% off it to make it one FM. Maybe I've missed something but I didn't quite understand that. Thinking of that CL is like 300Mb and TC7 "only" 24Mb, why couldn't he have put the entire crypt in? Was there suppose to be an act 5??
Anyway, I love this mission and it is still my favorite. I'm gonna play it again soon. The key hunt can get boring but think about it. The mansion is huge. Logically Garrett can't have 2-3 keys to fit in all the doors :) Right?
The plot and story is great. The atmosphere in the crypt is fantastic...
caffeinatedzombeh on 25/8/2003 at 17:53
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Originally posted by Goldie81 Wow, wait a minute!
The crypt was really alot bigger than it was in the FM? A person here wrote that he had to cut 90% off it to make it one FM. Maybe I've missed something but I didn't quite understand that. Thinking of that CL is like 300Mb and TC7 "only" 24Mb, why couldn't he have put the entire crypt in? Was there suppose to be an act 5??No, there was only supposed to be one act. It got too big for dromed to cope with, and so a large portion of the crypt was removed, it now worked again and Saturnine resumed building. When it was nearly completed it got too big again, and the camvator scenes were removed and put into seperate acts, this kept it going for a little longer but eventually dromed just gave up. The entire crypt was removed from the house and put into a seperate level, things that could be fixed were and the mission was released. At this point t7c had been in development for around two years and Sat never wanted to see dromed again, hence the occasional misaligned texture and the rather bizarre shape of the front courtyard (there was supposed to be a path around the left side of the house).
Alexius on 25/8/2003 at 18:54
6.5?
Tsk tsk tsk. What sort of a thief player are you?
I would give it 11, for I never had any trouble with keys or guards. I have no idea what you're complaining about. The secrets are easy to find and guards are ko'able.
Shadow on 26/8/2003 at 04:17
I guess it was ok... to me it was just another boring keyhunt with alot of guards and tile. Same with art of thievery, they were good missions with really good architecture but it was boring as hell, I hate keyhunts. I might go try it again someday (hopefully in a very long time...) and *hopefully* like it so I can join the group of Saturnine worshippers!
*gasping for air*
Phew!
smithpd on 26/8/2003 at 05:45
Keys are sometimes necessary to control the flow of a mission, as when the author wants the player to find things in a certain order. In the case of the Seventh Crystal, I believe that the keys enabled the story to unfold properly. You learn of the family's problems gradually. The scenes concerning the dead child and the parent's differing reactions are presented in the best order for dramatic effect. The dead child's room, entered only near the end, has a huge dramatic impact. What at first seems like mere incompatibility and infidelity evolves into a real tragedy. In my opinion, the Seventh Crystal has the best story of any FM to date. Sure, there are other storys that are more complicated, exciting, supernatural, and all the rest, but the Seventh Crystal is a human drama, full of emotion, and of cinematic quality.
Of course, the architecture is superb, as everyone agrees. I think the game play is very good, too, even if it is not so exciting as some. The keys are not that hard to find, and they are labeled. The AI are fairly easy to BJ if you want to play that way. On the other hand, if you find that too easy, the game play really shines in Ghost mode, where the timing and pace are about perfect. I have played it four times, ghosting all the way, and I think it's about time to play it again.
As far as Funka J's "rating" goes, I am stunned. :( Alexius, you are right on target. :)
Funka J on 26/8/2003 at 10:05
But... I don't want to KO guards. I ghost in every mission I play, and for the most part the hunt for the six or seven keys bored me to be perfectly honest and seemed like a waste of my time. I've been playing games for a number of years and finding endless amounts of keys and levers is something best left in the 1980's/90's. Also just because I didn't give the mission the rating you wanted, doesn't mean you have to question my style of play. I can think of a dozen or so fan missions which are much more fun to play than this.
Cerebration on 26/8/2003 at 12:18
It looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on the merits of this particular FM. It does go to show how hard a job it is to design a mission that everyone can enjoy, especially with the myriad of playing styles that people have developed over the years. These are labours of love after all, not commercial releases, so each mission is bound to reflect what the designer enjoys themselves, rather than what everyone in the Thief community wants to see.
(b.t.w. at this point I should admit that I've never been able to get the final camvator sequence to work, so all my talk about T7C having a great story kind of assumes there's a decent ending!)
So, there are a few issues with T7C, many of them due to a painful development cycle that would make a Hollywood movie proud, but the architecture and the lightning (especially the moonlit corridors) make this a truly memorable FM in my book.
I suppose I'm one of the many Saturnine worshippers at heart, if only because my limited attempts at dromed have shown me how much effort it must have taken to produce T7C.
caffeinatedzombeh on 28/8/2003 at 01:53
Quote:
Originally posted by Cerebration (b.t.w. at this point I should admit that I've never been able to get the final camvator sequence to work, so all my talk about T7C having a great story kind of assumes there's a decent ending!)
we're going to fix that somewhen, honest.
Quote:
Originally posted by Funka J Most of the time, there was no indication which key went in which door, for example, when I found the key to Bradley's room, I was unsure where his door was, finally finding it in the servants quarters
I can't help but wonder where else you'd expect to find a servant's room, oh and there's no l in bradey
Quote:
I found it increasingly annoying avoiding them whilst I was investigating which key fitted in which door.
If sneaking past all those guards a few times bothered you so much why not knock a few out? If you don't have the patience to sneak past them then don't.
Dario on 28/8/2003 at 03:50
(warning. my views are extremely blunt, and not always the views of other taffers. Read on, knowing this :))
I agree with all of you more and less. I had myself a LOAD of trouble trying to find and use the keys. I also had a the big disappointment going into the crypts. On the other hand, I liked the graphics and lighting of the mission, and I liked it's weight on your mood. The mission had alot of mood and story.
Only, I must bring up a new thought that I have had of the 7nth Crystal since day one. Do we like the story because of it's Quality, or because of it's Quantity? To me personally, I found the story quite and VERY abundant and predominant, though without any visible payload, to ME. All I saw when I was playing the mission, was a really BIG picture frame, with no picture in it. You know what I mean? I think we appreciate the 7nth Crystal's emphasis on story, without admitting that it really had none. I saw that the Seventh Crystal carried a Situation (very different from an actual Story), that went in depth with the events of the place. And the events are what set the Mood.
After playing each mission, I write an entry into a reviews document that I keep on my computer (that none of you will EVER, ever see: since it's only for me, It's as blunt with each mission as two suns colliding.) This is my method of playing missions and Learning how to make my own, bringing to the forefront of my attention ANY and ALL mistakes in every mission I've ever played, as well as any and all strengths.
So, one thing I record is my overall "feel" for the mission, or "mood." Let's just say that for this mission, I recorded that I felt depressed not accomplished. Whether it was that officer trying to rape the girl, or their kid that had died, or the sad and failing mariage, it was all just depressing to me, certainly not that feeling of uplifting and inspiration I got from the original missions. That sense of, "Ready or not, here I come, Truart." hehehe. Ya know? :) Instead it was more like, "Oh, that sucks. And that sucks. Suck to be him. Sucks to be her."
To be honest, in my widdle top secret review doc that's, I repeat, JUST for my eyes, I gave the Seventh Crystal a 7 (go figure), which is a GOOD review, because nothing has ever gone over a 9. As you may have guessed, my little review system is based on mistakes and what each mission COULD have been. So I'll let you in on a little top-secret secret; the two 9scoring missions are Hedgerows and Hammerites, and Saturio Returns Home (8.5). :D :thumb:
