Zechs Zero on 9/3/2009 at 15:12
Quote Posted by ManicMan
I see your point about the spy orbs, but then, they are very short range and notice how big they are?
It could be some kind of better equipment, or maybe the technology surrounding you can amplify the signal. I've seen worse leap of faiths in the storyline. :rolleyes:
Anyway, I reckon that you and me got different styles here, possibly cultural. You've explained how Garrett
does motivate and executes his moves, as he actually did and hence detailing his profile (but basically enabling him anything). Instead, I talk of the way he
should act, moving on from a starting model he has to stick to or risk incoherence (but possibly restricting him too much, prejudically).
ManicMan on 9/3/2009 at 16:13
^_^ Probebly, yeah. One problem with detailing the reasons behind a 'made up' character is growth. I do tend to allow growth in a character as long as it isn't a huge leap..
of course, the main thing i don't get with his character is in Thief 1- he battled with a Living God, and only won because of the help of believers in that god (The Hammers must believe in the Trickster, cause he is there God's Enemy God) yet he still doesn't seam to believe in Moving Statues or magicall stuff, even though he has lived it...
MrMunkeepants on 9/3/2009 at 17:30
Quote Posted by Zechs Zero
It could be some kind of better equipment, or maybe the technology surrounding you can amplify the signal. I've seen worse leap of faiths in the storyline. :rolleyes:
the City is full of power boxes with strange antennae, they could be boosting signals from all the Servants back to Karras and just happen to transmit Garret's vision as well.
Zechs Zero on 11/3/2009 at 12:29
One thing for sure that I would have changed, is the Soulforge mission. Shorter (activate all the beacons, then leave) and with less robots. Actually I would have used Haunts in the place, showcasing the mechanists' necromantic skills (possibly "holy" Haunts, if they serve the Builder).
ManicMan on 11/3/2009 at 13:31
Apart from the fact the mechanists was Technolgy, and hated all magic and such like.. Haunts, Zombies etc, are all creatures that hate and felt to be servants of the Trickster, even the Mechanists didn't turn pagan like that, they were really more extream then the Hammers (that didn't like Pagans and such like but would leave them alone if they were left alone)
Oh, and i found Soulforge too short myself.. way too easy..
Solabusca on 11/3/2009 at 14:00
Quote Posted by ManicMan
Apart from the fact the mechanists was Technolgy, and hated all magic and such like.. Haunts, Zombies etc, are all creatures that hate and felt to be servants of the Trickster, even the Mechanists didn't turn pagan like that, they were really more extream then the Hammers (that didn't like Pagans and such like but would leave them alone if they were left alone)
Oh, and i found Soulforge too short myself.. way too easy..
... I have no idea where you're getting this from. There were Mechanist Priests throwing magic flaming gears around, just like the Hammer priests with their magic flaming hammer-balls.
Haunts, Zombies and whatnot aren't *magic* to the Hammers or Mechanists (well, rank-and-file Mechanists, anyway). They're a perversion.
Finally - Hammerites were anti-Pagan as well; do you seriously believe that fanatics that would kidnap a woman off the street for suspicion of robbery ("She hath sinned in the Builder's eyes") wouldn't take action against suspected Pagans within their purview?
.j.
Zechs Zero on 11/3/2009 at 14:09
Well, children do have a reanimated corpse inside them. Can't be outright devoid of necromancy, or there would be no difference with the metal-only robots.
ManicMan on 11/3/2009 at 15:28
First, Sorry, i didn't mean Magic in that term, yes, the high priests do have a basic form of magic, but Zombies are really creature brought back with which is often called 'Earth Magic'. Earth Magic is using nature and stuff to do seaminly magical stuff, this would include creation of creatues like Rat Men, and the reanimation of corpses into zombies. This is also a form used by ones like Viktoria to make planets grow and such like, they don't have magic-magic but it is a form of magically energy that reanimates them. Even Viktoria comments on the fact of her powers coming from Nature (Earth Magic of that such is seen in Shaman-ism). The Hammers and such seam to perfer the term 'Priest' more then Mage though they are pretty much the same at times. There powers are holy from the builder himself, not nature and the world.
Yes, Zombies and such are called tools of the trickster (even if he has nothing to do with them) becaise true power of the Builder is one thing, where as what is used by the pagan's and such is a perversion of that kind of power and shouldn't be used, even if for the builders needs.
Since the term Magic is a wide field, it does really cover Zombies, haunt, ghosts etc. Of course, as in the real world, there comes a point when the reason is fully understood and there for no-longer Magic. Making Sound fly though the air was once magic, we now call it 'Radio' and it's a primary school game to make a small radio.
as for the pagans, the comment was about the Hammers not being as much against them in the sense that IF a Pagan is on there ground, they will take them out, but the Mechnists went farther and really hunted them, even taking the battle to pagan land. Hammers seam more intrested in controlling there own areas more then hunting out and wiping out Pagan areas, though if they found out the location, they would probebly attack them.
now, for the second point:
Quote:
Well, children do have a reanimated corpse inside them.
huh? okay, i missed that... The Childen are Robots, often called Childern because of there 'I am a child of Karras' etc. Are you talking about Servants? which i understood, or atlest thought i did, pretty well. The Mask seamed to basicly be mindcontrol, though in a fixed form, where the mask links directly into the brain and controls them. If the person inside was dead, then why would they talk (not the masks, but the people instead) and such like and it would be easyer just to do Robots maybe, as Corpes would smell and have other problems. Of course, doesn't quite explain how to keep them alive but then i get the feeling Karras's 'Upgrades' and stuff including some way to deal with that. For the small amount of blood shown on the Servants created at Soulforge, it was rushed (no cleaning up and stuff) and things.
Was there a document i missed or something saying about them being corpses inside?
Zechs Zero on 11/3/2009 at 21:48
Quote Posted by ManicMan
If the person inside was dead, then why would they talk (not the masks, but the people instead) and such like and it would be easyer just to do Robots maybe, as Corpes would smell and have other problems
I thought the butcher house in Eavesdropping left out any doubt as what happened to those poor souls; also it's not the first time I hear of this necromantic tendency in Karras'
servants. As to why he does prefer using these borgs in the place of normal robots, that's above my jurisdiction.
jtr7 on 11/3/2009 at 22:24
Scroll down:
(
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Masked_Servants)
The ghosts talk, and the zombies vocalize, and the servant's voices sound nothing like anything else, with doubled speech. These Slaves are under tight control, are cold and miserable, and have had Cultivators and Rust Gas Canisters installed in their bodies (too big for the head, and if they are talking with their vocal cords they need their speech organs), and with the gas emitter at the masks' mouths.
