Master of Dromed on 8/5/2020 at 10:57
Garrett TMT, if you can, please be kind and post here the link to your video in which you beat this mission as Vfig did. It may provide invaluable feedback for me and help to other not so experienced players in dealing with this mission.
radogoal on 8/5/2020 at 11:29
i can't find raputo ?
must i meet cedric before i can find raputo?
Galaer on 8/5/2020 at 12:29
Quote Posted by radogoal
i can't find raputo ?
must i meet cedric before i can find raputo?
Raputo is the guy that looks like Ramirez. Cedric will give you info what places he visits on his patrol route through city, but you can capture Raputo before visiting Cedric.
Yandros on 8/5/2020 at 14:25
Quote Posted by DirkBogan
Given the feedback thus far (not to mention the fact that you packaged the mission with myriad unused assets), I hope you'll consider submitting future releases for beta-testing, if not these two releases as well. Many of these rough edges could have been easily smoothed out with input from experienced testers.
I second this. Both of the missions include some unnecessary files and also the entirety of the DEDx resources, as opposed to only what you are using in each mission. Experienced testers and/or help from the folks in The Editor's Guild can help you trim down the archives (which should each be under 10MB I imagine), and also smooth out most of the gameplay issues and bugs which are being reported.
Garrett TMT on 8/5/2020 at 16:07
Quote:
Garrett TMT, if you can, please be kind and post here the link to your video in which you beat this mission as Vfig did. It may provide invaluable feedback for me and help to other not so experienced players in dealing with this mission.
Its in German :p
vfig on 8/5/2020 at 17:33
Quote Posted by Master of Dromed
as Garrett TMT said you
have the sewers in Opera Quarter at the start of the mission to navigate underwater and safe for the streets patrols. As you noticed, the streets with many lamp posts and a lot of light are
not the recommended way to proceed.. still you persisted in trying with that approach.
I used the canals a little bit, but if you'd like to know more about why I prefer to stay on land: getting in and out of the water is noisy and can alert guards; it's very hard to predict where in a body of water you'll be in light and where you'll be in darkness, which makes swimming less preferable; and several times I could see streetlamps right where the canal ended, at a blind corner of the street, which makes even just swimming there to see around the corner risky, and getting out of the water there even more risky.
Quote Posted by Master of Dromed
I think the mission can be done pretty easy on expert with around 5 KOs. But we are people playing Thief for almost 20 years so we cannot assume all the players have the same degree of skill. Still i recommend to you and to all not so experienced Thief players to play this mission at normal mode difficulty for the first time so they can get used with the environment first. To play at expert difficulty without knowing the map is simply madness as this place is very very big and you can end up getting lost. You have to know what guards to knock out as you have a limited amount of KOs. This can't be done at first attempt if you are not very experienced in sneaking or ghosting.
Obviously playing for the first time I can't know how big the map is nor how many ais I will encounter (which is why the limited KOs is frustrating: I don't know where I can safely "spend" them). I think you'll find a great many players will start any new mission on Expert, because, as you point out, many of us (including me) have over 20 years of experience playing this game, and want the higher challenge. But it is a mistake to assume that players will learn the mission first before choosing Expert difficulty.
Quote Posted by Master of Dromed
I wonder.. have you ever played Kidnap mission in Thief 2? This is no harder than finding Cavador in that huge underground mines in the Lost City, full of mechanist patrols.
I think Galaer has answered this in enough detail already. I will only add that I also understood the note to mean that Raputo would randomly be in one of the places, not that he was
on a long patrol.
Quote Posted by Master of Dromed
Still you had been incredible unlucky and pass near him a few times, at one moment you panicked and run in circles not paying attention on what's happening near you. Then you supposed the map is bugged or something and maybe there is no Raputo on the map and lost your concentration to the main goal. Again your approach was not optimal, as you simply can
wait for him in one place at his mansion, at the tavern or at the mages and eventually he will show up. If you are running in circles on the map you
can miss him as happened.
This is a lot of words to tell me, "You're playing it wrong" :) — remember that it is part of the job of a mission author to make sure their mission communicates effectively to players. This is the main reason to playtest, even more important than finding bugs: you get players with a wide range of skill and play styles who approach the mission in different ways, and you get to learn where your mission is confusing, or disorienting, or more difficult than you planned.
Quote Posted by Master of Dromed
After all i can say your videos were great and very helpful, you discovered a lot of bugs, the compass is wrong placed, the map is pretty bad and unclear, i have to mark Lady Catherine location and other important places in the future updates. The slipping AIs don't fall down instantly after they are KOed in sleep, other AI just run and fall down after a long time after a KO which looks pretty bad and needs a fix.
The map—apart from the palette bug—is actually pretty close to being really good. Mostly it's just too busy: I suggest getting rid of the arrows everywhere (are some of them are meant to
indicate Raputo's patrol route? if so, those might be worth keeping), and making it a little more visible which parts are streets and which are buildings. The AI KO bug (which was very entertaining!) is just because you have the priority set too high; (
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30694) here's a discussion of the same issue that another author encountered.
Quote Posted by Master of Dromed
Maybe i
have to name that boss guy in Thieves Lair as Reginald so when you KO him you know its not Raputo. Vfig reported there are more AIs that can be confused with Raputo as they are dressed in a fancy manner, maybe i have to rename them too to make things clear. Still you can expect that the guy you carry to be named Raputo as the guy in Kidnap mission was named Cavador :) I don't understand why u started to carry him if you were not sure that was indeed Raputo.
For me: I hadn't found any named AIs up until then, so didn't know for sure whether Raputo would be named or not. That's why I tried killing one of them to see if it failed the kidnap objective :D
Master of Dromed on 8/5/2020 at 18:20
Quote Posted by Garrett TMT
Its in German :p
Even if i'm not a german speaker i'm sure many of the people here on TTLG are. It would be of great help if you posted even if it's in german language.
Garrett TMT on 8/5/2020 at 22:46
Quote:
Even if i'm not a german speaker i'm sure many of the people here on TTLG are. It would be of great help if you posted even if it's in german language.
ok here :eek:
(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7N35PGZ04)
Master of Dromed on 9/5/2020 at 08:36
Quote Posted by Yandros
I second this. Both of the missions include some unnecessary files and also the entirety of the DEDx resources, as opposed to only what you are using in each mission. Experienced testers and/or help from the folks in The Editor's Guild can help you trim down the archives (which should each be under 10MB I imagine), and also smooth out most of the gameplay issues and bugs which are being reported.
Of course Yandros, I would consider submitting these to the editors sections for testing and reviewing. But first i have to fix some urgent problems with the visibility of the maps and some ugly bugs to some AI not falling down after being KO-ed.
Psych0sis on 9/5/2020 at 09:20
They're saying you should have done this beforehand, and with experienced testers.
