Renault on 2/4/2024 at 15:53
Quote Posted by voodoo47
also, a very controversial suggestion - lets maybe dml change the model and get the expansion rid of this embarrassment (and the other few found around the level);
if nothing else, it's making T2x not safe for work, and that probably isn't a good thing.
Censorship at it's finest. You're really Ok with this? Would you even bother talking to the mission's author first? I'm curious to know too what you would replace it with.
And reasoning that it's NSFW is an awful reason for doing it.
voodoo47 on 2/4/2024 at 18:02
there are a few scantily clad harlot models available that would do just fine.
I'm not going to change the models, this was aimed at the other people that are putting the fixup dmls together (are they, btw?), and I personally see it just as a removal of something of very poor taste. I would be ok with this, it was a big WTH moment even when I played the expansion for the fist time all those years ago. booba and cooch is cheap, throw them at something, it will just cheapen the entire experience, imho. same goes with profanity - if you need that to add punch to whatever you have, then it didn't have too much of a punch in the first place.
I would argue that no explicit content has always been part of the Thief experience.
Renault on 2/4/2024 at 21:59
But the point is...if it's someone else's fan project, that's not for you to decide. Next up you'll be taking the racy parts of out Calendra's Legacy because you'd don't approve.
voodoo47 on 2/4/2024 at 22:14
T2x seems to be abandoned, and currently there are multiple people fixing it up so it would play well in a modern T2 environment. so it's not something I would just decide to do. hence, a suggestion/question.
fortuni on 3/4/2024 at 12:11
T2X is not abandoned, abandoned means an author never finished building a mission in the first place.
It also plays very well indeed in the modern environment without any real need for major fixes, yes there are a few issues such as pocket counts, but they have already been addressed with the existing dmls. Most other issues you have raised are either minor cosmetic issues or you deciding you should change the original authors visions because hey ho you want to, regardless of the fact that most other people on this thread and else where do not want you altering other peoples art work, a consideration that has been pointed out to you numerous times.
As for the updating of the dmls, Glypher has made new dmls for missions 1,2, 7, 12 and 13. The other 8 missions will get updates dmls over the next couple of months (hopefully sooner), but it will take at least a week per dml, that's if you want quality dmls that cover everything that needs to be looked at. Glypher has got other things to do such as helping running Darkfate, working and having a real life, so asking how they are coming along everyday in this thread is getting a bit tiresome. When they are finished they will be posted in this thread, in the meantime a bit of patience will go a long way.
baeuchlein on 3/4/2024 at 12:42
I think voodoo probably meant "abandoned" in the sense of "Abandonware", which refers to old games which are not sold or maintained anymore. Some people consider it okay to distribute these old games, others (and often enough, the law as well) see it as software piracy. Sure, with T2X, it wouldn't be software piracy, but I would also be careful with calling it "abandoned" or something like that.
Anyway, I have used some of the DMLs which, AFAIK, are scheduled to be included in the next T2FMDML version, and these do work well with the second Ricebug version and the DMLs inside that version. Looks promising, especially since T2XNecro and T2XHD also use the Ricebug version's miss*.mis files as a base almost exclusively. This also means it could very well be that these DMLs will become part of T2FMDML, and thus should be verified to work with any further T2X version. I doubt the DML makers would approve it if their work was trashed because there's a new version of T2X that needs to be played without these DMLs.
voodoo47 on 3/4/2024 at 14:03
"abandoned" in a sense that the last (non-dml) update (that string patch) was published a decade ago. if the original team didn't care to put together an updated T2x release by now, then it's very safe to say they are not going to do it ever. so if some of the remaining issues are to be fixed, other people will have to step in. and yes, the remaining issues are not catastrophic - but still, would be nice to have them fixed.
same goes for the NecroAge build of T2x, NecroBob isn't around anymore, so its maps and resources will also have to be updated by someone else. gecko is still active, so he is free to grab the new base build and go full hdmod on it if he chooses to do so, player carried dynamic light lantern and all (how's that for the original vision).
ok, I was under the impression the existing dmls are just being checked and all the fixes that have been posted around the forum are being added, but if this is being remade from scratch then yeah, that will take some time. do you have a tracker of some kind? as mentioned, I already have (
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jC3rFZbt7xh6oG7XtVkQzqH1u0bTi2oqjGCISace3jw/edit#gid=1740963596) a couple of reports, and will probably have more once I start to run around the maps. it also would be nice to be able to testrun the wip dmls, if they can be downloaded somewhere.
either way, I think the best plan would be to wrap the new base build as cleaned up resources only, so absolutely no dmls, and leave the dml management to T2Fix and its T2FMdml pack completely. that will ensure no fix will be loaded multiple times, and it won't matter which build the user chooses to play (base/necro/hdmod), as the most up to date dml set will be always autoloaded by T2FMdml. sounds good?
Quote Posted by fortuni
you deciding you should change the original authors visions because hey ho you want to, regardless of the fact that most other people on this thread and else where do not want you altering other peoples art work, a consideration that has been pointed out to you numerous times
and as I have also pointed out numerous times, taxidermy and preservation are not the same thing. I'll leave it at that.
and some quick dml magic;
[video=youtube;QnP6NHFTEFk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnP6NHFTEFk[/video]
this is a
good thing (especially because
most T2x candles already
are interactive, and the original devs made them so
very intentionally). if you think this is a
bad thing, then you are just plain
wrong. and even ten thousand other people sharing your view won't make you any less wrong. howgh.
fortuni on 3/4/2024 at 16:05
Here are the dml's Glypher has posted so far
Latest dmls for T2X (03 Apr 2024) - (
https://drive.google.com/file/d/156h4CISgrpt4DcM70LvFxkIoEDmOXqAM/view?usp=sharing) Download.
miss18.mis.dml - Done (included in the T2FMDML package on Github)
miss19.mis.dml - Done (not yet included in the T2FMDML on Github)
miss20.mis.dml - WIP
miss21.mis.dml - WIP
miss22.mis.dml - WIP
miss23.mis.dml - WIP
miss24.mis.dml - Done (not yet included in the T2FMDML on Github)
miss25.mis.dml - WIP
miss26.mis.dml - WIP
miss27.mis.dml - WIP
miss28.mis.dml - WIP
miss29.mis.dml - Done (included in the T2FMDML package on Github)
miss30.mis.dml - Done (included in the T2FMDML package on Github)
t2x.gam.dml - WIP
If you post in this thread any issues you find, think need fixing etc Glypher will see them, he's keeping a regular eye on this thread.
voodoo47 on 3/4/2024 at 16:59
very good, will check and post whatever I've got in this topic then. thanks.
//general T2x T2FMdml dml note - almost no comments anywhere. short explanation of the issue and what is the fix doing would be preferable (ok, notes are not needed when a door angle is modified, but some edits deal with rather elaborate setups, it seems).
notes from my testruns can be found here (will be adding issues there rather than modifying this post forever): (
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jC3rFZbt7xh6oG7XtVkQzqH1u0bTi2oqjGCISace3jw/edit#gid=1740963596)
Komag on 17/4/2024 at 12:04
thumbs up from where I'm sitting, voodoo47. I'll be happy to update The Keep with a new clean working base version of T2X.