ladderman on 18/6/2008 at 12:33
hello
the hammerites caused the cataclysm when they brought the eye into the now abandoned hammerite cathedral.so what i want to know is why the keepers entrusted them to look after the talisman of air if the hammerites caused the cataclysm?.or maybe the keepers thought the hammerites were windbags(talisman of air)...thank you
colin
Renault on 18/6/2008 at 16:56
The only way to open the cathedral was to bring all four Talismans together. The Keepers figured the best chance of this NOT happening was if they split them up and put them in the hands of opposing factions (in this case, Hammers, Keepers, Mages, and Precurors (sort of ) ), a perfect system of checks and balances. Garrett, of course, screwed this strategy up, and it cost him one of his eyes.
Speaking of, I always thought there was a chance the Mages were after the Talismans themselves, and were not just collecting them to get into the cathedral and retrieve The Eye. Since their elemental powers (fire, water, earth, air) matched the four four elemental Talismans, they probably had other uses in mind for them.
Lord Dalar on 18/6/2008 at 18:23
Or maybe the talismans were already meant for gaining acces to the cathedral before the cataclysm, and so they already were in Hammer's hands, the "only job" the keepers did was to retrieve just 3 of the talismans, who knows, by stealing them from the hammers in a dark night? or maybe the talismans were splitted during the fall of some buildings during an escape action and a lucky keeper found them, or maybe more groups and after splitted them in the various locations.
They had to keep them seecret and safe.
Would be also a good point for some background story FM...being a keeper and scouting the old quarter during the dark days, helping some hammerites escaping under a false name, and at the end betraying them taking the talisman?
Just thoughts, but it really hides a small epic, which as LG often did is only spotted in the game, and maybe wasn't even imagined by its own creators...who knows....
Goldmoon Dawn on 18/6/2008 at 20:25
Alright damnit. Where is jtr! :ebil:
Iceblade on 19/6/2008 at 00:50
The old quarter is definitely a ripe place for story for not only the time of the cataclysm itself but also during the years after and perhaps at a later when it gets retaken. I mean seriously, why haven't they already taken it back...well that is a discussion for another thread (which was long ago made I am sure).
In any case, I believe it was stated or strongly implied that the keepers set up the elemental wards to keep people out and to keep the evil in. I seriously doubt the Hammers would even consider such a means of keeping the door closed (rather paganism seeming). "Far better to trust door and key then the magics of enemy."
Solabusca on 19/6/2008 at 19:58
Well, I'd suggest that the Keepers did pass along the talisman, through channels that allowed them to remain in the shadows, and that the 'locks' were placed there by Keepers as they prepared to evacuate the area.
Given that they spread the tokens out so well, and only placed two in known hands (the Hammerites and the Mages), while placing the other two in inaccessible and/or trapped regions.
Anyways, that seems to have all the hallmarks of 'Keeper Subtlety' to my way of thinking.
.j.
theBlackman on 20/6/2008 at 00:06
To my knowledge there is no evidence that the Hammers were the ones that "used the EYE" and caused the problem. EDIT: But it turns out that the Hammers did have it at some time during the conflict.
Excerpt from the files:
Quote:
Originally Posted by M11EYE.str
Brother Gerard,
The behavior we hath repeatedly seen exhibited is truly most troublesome. The Eye hath been moved once again to the vault in the cellar. This eve, please you post two sentinels to guard it. Thus we shall determine how it is that we find it floating o'er the high altar each morn.
Thanks to Emerald Wolf.
The balance of "good vs evil" was upset when the EYE was developed and used, but who or what group used it is not specified.
The Keepers did appropriate it (they did not make it, and no reference to who or what actually did so exists), and what better way to secure it than in the old quarter and protected by the zombies, haunts and spectres that were confined there.
Depending on which version of TDP you play, the Talimans were hidden away from men and were necessary to unlock the Cathedral where the EYE was hidden.
In the original, two were in the lost city, one in possession of the Hammers, further protected by a magic spell, and one in the Keeper Grotto in the old quarter.
In TGold the Hammers had one, the Mages had one, one was in the Keeper grotto, and one in the Lost City.
The "Cataclysm" that did in the Precursors predated the use and construction of the EYE. The city being hidden and considered by the Keepers to be unreachable (although how they got there to hide the talismans is a mystery) and if some one did find it the fire elementals and other dangers and difficulties would keep the talisman safe. (the elementals were there when the Keepers were sent in to hide the talisman(s)) as is evidenced by the death of the Keepers who took the talisman into the Lost City.
There is no evidence that the "cataclysm" was in fact caused by the use of the EYE. The Undead (all makes and models), were the result of its use, but not the "cataclysm".
Peanuckle on 20/6/2008 at 03:32
Well, the talisman were probably created way on back as focal points for large amounts of elemental power, which would explain why the mages want them. I'm pretty sure the keepers felt safe giving a talisman to the Hammers because they're a super-militant, hammer-wielding group of religious nutjobs who wont hesitate to bash and smash. Can't beat that for a security team.
I'm not sure how the eye got into the old quarter in the first place, but I'm almost positive that the Hammers were toying around with it, trying to understand it's power, otherwise they'd just rig a way to blow it up rather than let it blaspheme their holy altar whenever it felt like it.
theBlackman on 20/6/2008 at 05:35
Quote Posted by Peanuckle
[...]
I'm not sure how the eye got into the old quarter in the first place,[...]
Quote:
M11EYE.str
Brother Gerard,
The behavior we hath repeatedly seen exhibited is truly most troublesome. The Eye hath been moved once again to the vault in the cellar. This eve, please you post two sentinels to guard it. Thus we shall determine how it is that we find it floating o'er the high altar each morn. From the information found in the Cathedral by Garrett. Thanks to Emerald Wolf. I had forgotten that little bit of lore.
The latter distribution of the Talismans -ala GOLD-, IE, one to the Hammers, and one to the Mages was a good strategy. Neither side would surrender thier Talisman to the other. So, even if one side found the missing two, they would still not have the necessary 4 and would be very unlikely to ever have it and recover the powerful artifact THE EYE, from the walled off, spectre inhabited Old Quarter Cathedral.
Emerald Wolf on 20/6/2008 at 06:15
Quote Posted by M11EYE.str
Brother Gerard,
The behavior we hath repeatedly seen exhibited is truly most troublesome. The Eye hath been moved once again to the vault in the cellar. This eve, please you post two sentinels to guard it. Thus we shall determine how it is that we find it floating o'er the high altar each morn.
This proves that the Hammers did indeed have something to do with the eye before the cataclysm forced the keepers to use the elemental wards to lock up the cathedral. So stop getting so worked up about it.
