Rekrul on 4/7/2007 at 07:08
I searched and found a few threads that mention some of these, but I couldn't find any definitive answer, so here I am...
I played through Thief Gold a couple years ago. I originally played it on my old 233Mhz system, but I'm pretty sure that I replayed it on my current system, because I remember I had a problem with the graphics underwater and Cutty's speech running together (both of which I posted about here).
A while back, I was in EB Games before they got rid of used software and became Gamestop and I saw the Platinum edition of The Dark Project for only $1.99. I wanted to compare it to the Gold edition, so I bought it. I've been playing it recently, and I noticed a few differences. When I installed it, it was version 1.33, so no later patch is available. I'm curious if these are just differences between TDP and TG, or if maybe they're the result of running it on my current system (1.8Ghz, Windows 98SE, GeForce4 MX440).
Zombies - In TG, two overhead swings of the sword would put any zombie to sleep and they wouldn't get up again unless you lingered near the body. In TDP, putting a zombie to sleep is VERY difficult and there doesn't seem to be any pattern to it. Some will stay down after a while, while others never stay down. I even encountered one who wouldn't fall at all. Others will freeze into position after getting up and won't move unless you go near them.
Rope arrows - I don't recall having any major problems climbing the rope in TG, other than the usual (rope too near a wall, miss the rope during a jump, etc). In TDP, getting onto a rope from the ground seems MUCH harder, even if the rope is hanging in the middle of an open space. Often he just jumps right past the rope and occasionally, the rope acts like a pogo stick. I'll shoot to the top, and sometimes beyond, then fall back down. Often he will do this multiple times. One time, I even died from this happening, since the arrow was in the top of a two-story building and he flew up at least 6-10 feet past the arrow. I can't recall this ever happening to me in TG. Also, standing directly under the rope and jumping straight up doesn't seem to work in TDP, but it did in TG. Jumping onto a rope from a platform seems to work normally.
Mantling - Several times in TDP, I've stuck a rope into the side of a wooden beam or platform, climbed up until my head was well above the beam, pressed the jump/mantle button and Garrett jumps off the rope. This probably happened at least a couple times in TG and I just don't remember it, but it seems to happen quite often in TDP.
NPCs - In at least two different missions in TDP, I've seen guards just standing in the distance rather than patroling. They don't seem to come to life until you get within a certain distance of them. For example, in Assassins, I climbed over the wall, took out the archers, dropped down to the grass, snuck around to the back of the building and spotted 3-4 guards at the other end of the long back section. I sat there waiting for about 5 minutes, but they never moved. I even used the bow zoom to confirm that they weren't moving. I starting walking closer and when I got to about the halfway point, where you can enter the courtyard, they came to life and started walking toward me. I forget how they were spaced in TG, but here they were all bunched up, probably from each one getting to a certain point and then turning into a statue. It looked like a group of friends out for a stroll, rather than a guard patrol.
Are these some of the things they fixed in the Gold edition, or is TDP being especially buggy for me?
jtr7 on 4/7/2007 at 07:38
Yep. Nothing unfamiliar in your experiences, except the frequency of the rope bug.
"Platinum" is misleading. I wish they hadn't called it that since it's "just" a patched Dark Project and Metal Age (not a desparagement of the games, just the label). If it had been Thief Gold and Metal Age, "Platinum" wouldn't continue to cause confusion, especially for people who can't read the box carefully before buying. Before I could pick up Gold, I was fortunate enough to snag the Platinum double-set for the cheaper price.:thumb:
As for climbing a rope to the beam and jumping off instead of mantling: Is this happening no matter where the arrow sinks in? I know that if the arrow head is sticking up high enough above the wooden surface, and close enough to the edge of the wood, the engine will just think you are only on the rope. This happened to me last week. I try to aim for the lower half of the side of the beam and try to sink it in at as close to a 45-degree angle. The angle's not that necessary, but I personally have more success at just climbing up and onto the targeted surface. If the shaft is at a 30 to 45-degree angle, Garrett will first go up the rope and then slide forward where the rope is attached to the arrow. Then it's obvious he's at the top and ready to heave onto the surface.:sweat: Sorry for that paragraph, there.
I haven't whacked zombies in Dark Project, only Gold.
I never had the NPC problem, myself. Sounds like a corruption to me.
Solabusca on 4/7/2007 at 07:41
Quote Posted by Rekrul
Are these some of the things they fixed in the Gold edition, or is TDP being especially buggy for me?
I'm going to go with Buggy - mind you, I haven't played TDP in years (although I am currently working my way through TG for the umpteenth time).
I'm sure some other taffer will be by to advise you further.
.j.
Rekrul on 4/7/2007 at 10:31
Quote Posted by jtr7
Yep. Nothing unfamiliar in your experiences, except the frequency of the rope bug.
It happens all too often for my taste. I've had it happen at least a couple times every time I've used a rope arrow, including at the start of The Sword, where you shoot the arrow into the beam and the rope is hanging in the middle of an open area.
Quote Posted by jtr7
"Platinum" is misleading. I wish they hadn't called it that since it's "just" a patched Dark Project and Metal Age (not a desparagement of the games, just the label). If it had been Thief Gold and Metal Age, "Platinum" wouldn't continue to cause confusion, especially for people who can't read the box carefully before buying. Before I could pick up Gold, I was fortunate enough to snag the Platinum double-set for the cheaper price.:thumb:
I only have the DP disc in one of those blue Eidos wallet things, not the box or the companion TMA disc. I do own TMA, but I got it in its own box at the same time I got Thief Gold. Both were marked $9.99 at EB, but the total rang up as $15. I haven't played TMA yet. I've been putting it off, not for anything to do with the game, just that I kind of wanted to save it, since it was the only other classic Thief game and my system won't run Deadly Shadows. Of course now there's T2X to look forward to. :thumb:
Quote Posted by jtr7
As for climbing a rope to the beam and jumping off instead of mantling: Is this happening no matter where the arrow sinks in? I know that if the arrow head is sticking up high enough above the wooden surface, and close enough to the edge of the wood, the engine will just think you are only on the rope.
I'm not sure now. I didn't pay that much attention to how the arrow was placed, but I will from now on.
Quote Posted by jtr7
I haven't whacked zombies in Dark Project, only Gold.
When playing RTC in Gold, I usually liked to incapacitate the zombies who wander out into the courtyard right as you exit the cathedral so that there are less of them wandering around St. Yora's.
Quote Posted by jtr7
I never had the NPC problem, myself. Sounds like a corruption to me.
So far it's only happened in Assassins and with one guard in The Sword. He was at the other end of one of the hallways, just standing there and when I took a step toward him, he started moving. You can tell when they're frozen because they don't do any of the idle animations. Also, it's hard to tell, but it looked like the guards in the distance in Assassins were "skating" at first, then they started to walk. I've only seen NPCs "skate" when you're up really high and looking down on them. I've never before seen them do it while you're on the ground.
Quote Posted by Solabusca
I'm going to go with Buggy - mind you, I haven't played TDP in years (although I am currently working my way through TG for the umpteenth time).
Well, I had to re-install the game yesterday (I needed another 600MB of space, so I backed up the saves and temporarily uninstalled it) so I'll see if the rope and frozen NPCs still occur.
<Username> on 4/7/2007 at 11:47
Quote Posted by Rekrul
Also, it's hard to tell, but it looked like the guards in the distance in Assassins were "skating" at first, then they started to walk. I've only seen NPCs "skate" when you're up really high and looking down on them. I've never before seen them do it while you're on the ground.
I noticed that too. It occasionally occurs when an AI is very far away from the player. Perhaps someone who knows more about the properties of the Engine can provide an explanation?
Yandros on 4/7/2007 at 12:15
Yes, it's called "efficiency". AI animations are turned off when they are a certain distance or greater from the player (regardless of whether or not the player can see them). In T2 (and maybe TG) I think they fixed that such that AI are not efficient if they are rendered.
DJ Riff on 4/7/2007 at 12:19
I played origilally in DP 1.14 On 300MHz / Vanta LT system, now I have DP 1.33 from Platinum Collection and Gold Edition and new computer (AMD 3700+, GF 7600GT). So:
In DP it's really difficult to put a zombie to sleep. You can make them fall, but they rise immediately. If they don't see you after that, they'll just go away, as if they didn't remember that someone was jumping around them with a sword several seconds ago. In Gold they fall and sleep until you awake them, you can even push them via hammer/rubble/crate etc.
Never had a problem with rope arrows on my old 300MHz system. I used them frequenly: escaped from a chase, did some Tarzan-like tricks, explored some rooftops. On my new system every rope is a risk to fly to the stars with supersonic speed, both in DP and Gold. So I think it's somehow weird connected with hardware.
Never saw a frozen NPC. Yes, at far distances they 'skate', both in DP and Gold, but do not freeze. I remember that in DP Bonehoard there was a hole in the tunnels, from which you can see skating burricks. :eek: But in Gold this hole was patched up :grr:
I can add another weird bug, that happened to me. I had AMD 2000+ and GF FX5200, and noticed that floor traps are acting veeeery slowly. After I step on it, it took about 5 minutes (:bored: ) for it to go down and activate. Taffing with V-Sync and other video stuff didn't help. After I changed my video card to Ti4200, the problem disappeared.
So I think that most of that bugs (except zombies) are hardware-dependent. Maybe DP is just more sensitive to hardware.
d'Spair on 4/7/2007 at 14:27
Quote:
can add another weird bug, that happened to me. I had AMD 2000+ and GF FX5200, and noticed that floor traps are acting veeeery slowly. After I step on it, it took about 5 minutes ( ) for it to go down and activate. Taffing with V-Sync and other video stuff didn't help. After I changed my video card to Ti4200, the problem disappeared.
I can't even imagine how something like that may depend from hardware (especailly video card).
DJ Riff on 4/7/2007 at 19:15
d'Spair, yes, I was very surprised too when I turned off hardware acceleration and saw that all traps are working properly in software mode. And then I changed my videocard with the same drivers and :eek:
That was my post on Darkfate about this two years ago:
(
http://darkfate.ru/forum/topic.cgi?forum=13&topic=61)
d'Spair on 4/7/2007 at 19:55
That's ridiculous. I just can't see the logic - how can video acceleration hardware affect the speed of the floortraps push? :eek:
