Dante on 3/2/2009 at 01:05
Oh, you know what I mean!
jtr7 on 3/2/2009 at 01:09
;):p
SubJeff on 3/2/2009 at 07:50
More like - Scenario 1 and 2: Someone stole our stuff. We don't know who though because he was stealthy as a mofo. Hey, this other guy wants to help us out. What do you guys think?
Herr_Garrett on 3/2/2009 at 07:52
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
Anyway, we're a group of Hammerites protecting the temple with at least one high priest. One day a thief breaks in, disguised as a novice, steals everything not nailed down, knocks out lots of guards and the high priest while he's sleeping (!), unlocks our modern artsy-fartsy security system to steal our most precious and dangerous objects by heretically reciting a Builder's prayer and what do we do? Send out patrols on the streets to capture the villain? Nooo, when we finally see him again wandering seemingly peaceful among the foul pagan creatures the first thing we say is:
"Hi there, master thief, it's you! You see, can't you bring us back our high priest, you know the one you almost clubbed to death in sleep, yes, and bring him back to us alone? Thanks in advance!"Which just goes to show that the Hammerites are a forward-planning, forward-looking, co-operative, go-getting, hard-hitting, Mean Lean Team, who have an important place in the modern world as a religious group where faith and science, order and open-minded humanism need not be at variance! Our quest is to bring the blessings of our faith and science to all the people of the world, for their betterment and welfare! The Order of the Hammer was and is a history- and society-forming power, with many notables as our devout supporters! Come, join us today, and help us achieveing the Builder's dream! With your own room and instant promotion possibilities! Why, the most significant ones of human history were all strict believers of the Builder, such as Torquemada, Alexander VI, and... er... Karras...er...
For more information, ask at the YMHA...Thank you...
Beleg Cúthalion on 3/2/2009 at 08:11
Oh no, the Intelligent Handicraft movement runs rampant...
Sneaksie on 3/2/2009 at 11:35
I agree completely, the whole "improving relations with factions" affair in TDS was a complete non-sensical waste of time and resources. I hope that this feature was added to the game by marketing department along with decision to develop TDS and DeusEx2 for PC and Xbox simultaneously and it was not a 'brilliant' idea of one of the designers.
Also it seems Spector wanted to add features from Deus Ex 1 and 2 to Thief, where they do not make sense.
Beleg Cúthalion on 3/2/2009 at 18:10
He's manoeuvring between the factions throughout TDP and TMA, so one cannot say that it doesn't make sense. We can talk about execution and all that but not about the basic idea IMHO.
Sneaksie on 4/2/2009 at 11:20
Faction system could be interesting if done right. For example Garrett could do side-missions where he can assist Hammers, or make some decisions during the main quest which would improve their attitude to him in later missions, but not the current one. There is no way all Hammerite guards can momentarily know that their superiors decided to not punish evil thief who broke all their rules.
Faction system in TDS is Zerg Overmind one, where each faction member not only immediately shares the collective attitude, but also senses that Garrett killed a bug anywhere.
By the way, can you remove this system from TDS by modding? Or this question is better suited for Editors guild? Removing the letters about killing rust mites and elemental arrows will be easy (and removing all mites from the game is also possible i think), but there is a separate interface page for this and the game will still improve relations with factions.
Beleg Cúthalion on 4/2/2009 at 12:05
You can change the whole game if you like and with respect to glueing together the split-up missions and getting rid of the blue fog we have been thinking about this already (c.f. the threads in the T3Ed Guild and some YouTube videos showing the "re-united" Cradle or Southquarter/Docks/Stonemarket). But this is a LOT of work. If someone tries nonetheless he'll have a LOT of support as well, but basically he has to re-construct every little scripting/linking/objectives element in the maps resp. delete everything related to the faction system in your case. But I don't even think everyone would like that. Anyway, TDS maps are incredibly complex with a lot of things no one will ever notice but you'd have to care about them.
And since T3Edder are smaller in numbers for a couple of reasons and usually all busy with writing their own missions, these ideas haven't been more than experiments yet. Considering the fact that not even the DromEd guys had enough homogeneity and ressources to get Thief 2 Gold working, I fear we will never have a truly improved TDS.
Petike the Taffer on 4/2/2009 at 12:41
Quote Posted by jtr7
Pagans:
1. Didn't know Garrett took the Paw at first, thought the Hammerheads had something to do with it, and were preparing for war against them, anyway.
2. Viktoria warned Dyan not to harm Garrett, that he had a purpose. Dyan's own visionings confirmed he did.
Hammerites:
1. Didn't know Garrett took the Chalice at first, thought the pagan scum had something to do with it, were more willing than ever to kill pagans on sight.
2. Drept seems to know more than is ever explained. Even the Hammers who question Drept's faith trust his judgment to keep Garrett alive a few days more.
Yeah, those are the most likely explanations.
On the other hand, TDP has a similiar plot hole :
The Hammers just team up with Garrett once the Trickster and his minions attack them, and they also decide pretty fast to make a counterfeit Eye to twart the Trickster's plans. Always left me baffled... :erg:
But yeah, they could've made the whole faction system in TDS more sophisticated. It DID feel pretty half-baked... :p
