Kylotan on 2/9/2007 at 20:14
My first post in almost 3 years, yay.
I finally got around to playing Deadly Shadows. I'm sure most of the pros and cons have been thrashed out on here long before, so I won't go into all that. But I'm interested in knowing if other people considered it as linear as I do? I don't just mean linear as in physically linear - although the clocktower level for one appears to have pretty much one single defined route that you're forced to take - but also in that the problems you need to solve have just one answer too.
Quite often I find myself needing to cross a room with a guard in it, who is staring at the bright patch that I need to cross. I have several different ways of taking him out, but I don't get the option of sneaking round him, or taking a different route. I've just passed a spot where I had to get through a given door, and on the other side of the door, were 2 guards standing pretty much facing it. No chance of sneaking there. Same with a mission where I had to get into the Overlook Mansion - I lacked the climbing gloves and someone was stood in front of the door, so I had to knock him out, with apparently no other option.
This was hardly ever the case in the original games. There were usually 2 or more ways of handling any situation, which were more distinct than "which of my arrows or weapons will I remove this foe with".
Have others seen this? Or am I just being useless and missing the alternatives open to me?
Peanuckle on 3/9/2007 at 01:20
I had some problems like this, but mostly with the stationary guards only. Patrollers are easy, just wait for them to move. But yeah, ghosting in DS is very difficult for me because the engine they use just ruins my perception of where my body is relative to the guards.
Acolyte on 3/9/2007 at 07:44
I find that's when the 3rd ppov comes in handy. It also compensates for the lack of forward leaning, which I use quite a lot in T1&2. (After remapping it to a much more convenient key, of course.
But in general I'm noticing the lack of sneak-ability too. I was afraid it was just me making hash out of the missions on a first play-through, but maybe not. The linearity maybe not so much, but then I just got started, really.
nicked on 3/9/2007 at 11:17
oh definitely. TDS basically assumes that the player has no desire to ghost and is comfortable with knockouts and murder. Especially on the main city levels - there's even signs saying "There were xx knockouts last night". When I read that I thought I was playing Unreal Tournament - with a bloody death tally! Of course if you try and ignore that and play the game as a devious head-cracker, it's still good fun, but it's a depressing experience to play when you start thinking about how much better designed the first 2 were.
Jeshibu on 3/9/2007 at 12:20
Can't you just make noise to distract them or use a noise arrow?
Kylotan on 3/9/2007 at 12:34
If there's 2 stationary guards, I can use a noisemaker, but generally it's easier to use a gas bomb, since the game is so ridiculously easy even on Expert that I have a full complement of every standard tool half way through the game on every mission. If there's 1 guard, I can just knock him out. There seems to be very few situations where it's actually worth sneaking past someone, since where it's possible, it's usually pointless.
Dia on 3/9/2007 at 15:23
Actually, I felt quite insulted by the linear gameplay of TDS in general. Though the area mentioned above was particularly frustrating, iirc. I hate feeling 'played down to' and definitely got that feeling throughout my TDS experience. I believe I pretty much just blasted through that area, simmering all the while at my lack of options. :mad:
Kylotan on 3/9/2007 at 17:27
Yeah, this was one area in question, on the ground floor of the clocktower:
Inline Image:
http://www.twilightsembrace.com/_misc/03September07/thief_ds_linear.jpgThe light is bright where I need to go, and the entire 360 degree field of view is watched by the guards. Distracting those 2 guards is pretty pointless - I would have to lure them into the room I'm currently in, which is too narrow to risk. You really do just have to remove them, which admittedly has a bit of a challenge since there's a 3rd guy patrolling in sight.
I definitely didn't like this feeling that the level was just a series of obstacles to be overcome one by one in a single obvious way.
Ziemanskye on 3/9/2007 at 17:38
Quote Posted by Kylotan
There seems to be very few situations where it's actually worth sneaking past someone, since where it's possible, it's usually pointless.
I remember The Metal Age. I don't remember there ever being a point/it being worthwhile to sneak past people in that either, except perhaps to prove you could*. You shouldn't accuse a sequel of not having something its ancestors didn't have either.
(* = Obviously aside from in Framed! mission, where you weren't allowed to assault people)
Beyond that, there is quite often in TDS more ways of approaching things than initially appears, though the smaller levels and more specialised tools change the emergent space to something more managable as a design element. Which is a nice way of saying that you can't just goof around so much and see what happens :p
Kylotan on 3/9/2007 at 18:19
The Metal Age seemed to have more noisy floors and fewer moss arrows, so sometimes it was impractical to get close enough to a guard to knock them out. They also did a better job of chasing you if you got it wrong. And on the levels where they appeared, the big robots were often much easier to avoid than take out, though you had a choice. Sure, you could still play by removing every opponent, usually, but I never felt like it was the most effective way of handling them all. TDP did even better with the undead.
But quite often on TDS, there isn't much of a choice at all. Guards walk up and down narrow corridors on short patrol routes which seem to have fewer dark alcoves or side doors than in previous games. Knock them out or make 2 distractions, one as you travel in each direction. That's about all you can do.
Most of all though, I don't remember it having any scenes like the one above where you're pretty much forced to go through people instead of around them in some way. I just had to endure almost an entire level of it, which was quite tedious.
