Jashin on 3/3/2007 at 05:15
"Scary" is a subjective notion. To be scared hinges on things of a personal nature, your background for instance. If by scared you mean via the threat of death (and retries), then plenty of sp/mp game scare me.
I don't think originally stealth was meant to be scary so much as exciting and/or voyeuristic.
Purists on these boards are not friends of progress, and consequently progress hurts the purists the most.
New Horizon on 3/3/2007 at 05:31
Quote Posted by Jashin
Purists on these boards are not friends of progress, and consequently progress hurts the purists the most.
Progress is also a subjective notion...food for thought.
Cronkhite on 3/3/2007 at 07:15
Quote:
Purists on these boards are not friends of progress, and consequently progress hurts the purists the most.
Expound? Quite ambiguous.
Jashin on 3/3/2007 at 08:19
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Progress is also a subjective notion...food for thought.
Progress in the gaming industry is a matter of business first, so it's subjective to a much smaller degree. Given the circumstance I'm willing to concede that T3 could NOT have been made like T1/2 in 2003, on the xbox, and be player-friendly. It just isn't likely to be all three and have a shadow of a chance of success on the mainstream playing field. T3 is the first Thief game of the new generation, and despite changes tailored to first-time players, is still very Thiefish. For these types of games to be made, 1) they have to make money, 2) first entry would have to capture a diverse audience. It'd have taken success to breed success, and I expect BioShock to follow this model.
I'm very happy to see that community members have kept the thief fire burning into the new generation, what I don't like is that it's done at the expense of something that's entirely unavoidable.
Cronkhite on 3/3/2007 at 08:36
Progress in gaming is a matter of business first...? What does this mean? Profit? So progress in gaming is profit? Confusing.
True, technology has advanced, but has game quality truly increased? I wonder. Graphics and other sensory aspects of gaming have certainly improved, and that could be considered progress, but have games themselves become better? In my experience, no, they have not.
I'm still vexed about the whole "purists are not friends of progress" comment. Purists are typically gaming traditionalists, and I think that traditionalists are dismayed when new technology (e.g., graphics) supplants areas of a classic game or genre. I highly doubt that most purists and traditionalists, however, would insist on lower technology just to have a lower level of technology. If game quality can be maintained or can increase commensurately with technology, then I doubt most purists would decry that.
Jashin on 3/3/2007 at 09:07
Graphical technology, as well as the prominence of console gaming (think controller) have dictated the definition of "progress" in recent years. In order for a franchise to proliferate, the first entry has to succeed commercially more than critically. Ken Levine knows this.
Will be back to finish this post later, gotta go now.
New Horizon on 3/3/2007 at 14:16
Quote Posted by Cronkhite
Progress in gaming is a matter of business first...? What does this mean? Profit? So progress in gaming is profit? Confusing.
Like most everything in our society, progress is gaged by how financially successful it is, regardless of what the overall quality might be. Check out Reality T.V., that's a fine example. I stopped watching T.V. when reality T.V. came along...I just rent any DVD sets that I consider worthy, or I borrow them from our local library. I don't remember what it's like to sit through a commercial anymore.
Anyway, that's slightly off topic. At any rate, a lot of things are greatly benefiting from success due to regression. There was a lot of things done very well in TDS, but if it's considered a sign of progress to have a game that can barely meet the standards set by the previous two titles...well, we're in a very sad place.
I'm all for progress, but as Jashin pointed out, inadvertently or not, gamers measure it differently than those who are making the games.
Abysmal on 3/3/2007 at 15:48
Replace "progress" with "change"
New Horizon on 3/3/2007 at 17:45
Quote Posted by Abysmal
Replace "progress" with "change"
Everything changes, whether we like it or not is irrelevant. People tend to like good changes, poor changes...(choices) tend to disappoint.
Cronkhite on 3/3/2007 at 20:57
An apt quote from TDS comes to mind here. Something along the lines of "it hath much worth, but no worthiness."
Replacing progress with change alters the entire discussion. Change is a neutral word, while progress is a positive word. Although even then the benefits and negatives of change are open to debate due to subjectivity.
