zacharias on 28/2/2014 at 14:32
Background ramble:
I've told myself my DromEd days were over (that ship has sailed, etc.) yet recently I still find myself considering ideas for Thief levels. But I think if I did another level it probably wouldn't be a massive improvement over what I've done before and that's somewhat of a concern with such a big time investment..So I got to thinking about a collaboration (purely pie in the sky at this point). And was wondering if people care to share opinion/thoughts on team projects, do people think they are workable or is the one author 'driving the bus' with some specialist assistance the only collaboration model that really works? NB. I was thinking about team projects not out of laziness (although my time available is limited) but purely mixing different skill sets for better effect.
One idea I was considering was a chinese whispers or production model - one person builds an environment and then hands it over completely to someone else for AI and scripting. Of course, that still leaves the problem of story, someone would have to take the lead with that. (It goes without saying that some degree of trust and respect between parties is necessary for this to work). Or is DromEd just too much of an individual pursuit?
Also, bit of a tangent I've been doing some random artworks recently (a set of colours on a grid applied randomly) and was wondering if something similar could be setup within a Thief level (randomizing almost every encounter, important object location, or any other variable that has an effect on gameplay) for a more dynamic and unpredictable environment. I have already done this to a small degree, but I'm sure the idea could be taken to a whole new level (i.e. design the entire level with that principle as the starting point and see where it leads). What else might be done?
Ah..hope this makes sense. Not asking for help as such, just wanna generate a bit of discussion..
epithumia on 4/3/2014 at 17:19
I guess take a look at (
http://thiefmissions.com/m/ChainProject) The Chain Project; it was done in a manner similar to what you're proposing.
Also, at least try out NewDark dromed if you haven't yet done so.
R Soul on 4/3/2014 at 22:58
A lot of random things can be done with objects, especially when you use custom scripts.
RandomRelay (from (
http://dromed.whoopdedo.org/public_scripts/index) PublicScripts) or (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134166) NVRelayTrap (with the correct design note) can send TurnOn down a random CD link. Each CD link could go to a TeleportTrap, with each of those CD linked to the same object.
NVTrapSetQVar can randomize a quest variable. You could use QuestVarTriggers to teleport the object, and make use of book text system being able to use QVar values to determine which .str file to show (see info on the (
http://www.thiefmissions.com/telliamed/scripts.html#legible) Legible script, which books and plaques inherit from). This allows you to give the player a good clue no matter where the object will be.
Patrol routes can also be randomized. Link a TrolPt to two others (or more), and each time the AI will choose one at random. I wouldn't go overboard with this though. Planning is an important part of gameplay, so I wouldn't recommend too many of these junctions.
You could have completely different patrols for each new mission by creating multiple routes, setting the AI to patrol but placing it in solid. You can use the random teleport idea to teleport the AI to one of the TrolPts and that route will be used for the whole mission.
And you could use NVLinkBuilder to add/remove AIPatrolLinks during the mission.
In the Bank mission, LGS placed some cameras, and on each difficulty level, a certain number are deleted at random. If you load miss7.osm you can use the (
http://www.thiefmissions.com/telliamed/scripts2.html#camerakiller) CameraKiller script for your own objects. It should work with any objects, not just cameras.
I think that's enough examples. Anything that responds to TurnOn/TurnOff can be influenced by randomness.
zacharias on 5/3/2014 at 02:46
The chain project sounds cool, albeit more of a fun thing. I had in mind collaborative specialization, more what you would find in a studio, scripters do scripting, builders build (I grant you level design is a generalist thing, but people have preferences/tendencies, you get the idea). At heart I'm not really a heavy scripter, better at the art/arch side of FM building.
The random stuff is cool, thanks RSoul. I put in some of this type stuff according to NV's old random trigger in an old mission (I'm a bit of a noob about the scripts to be honest), it's cool stuff, although as you say can quickly get too random. I was wondering about more experimental type missions where someone who really has a handle on all this stuff could script some fancy stuff, then add that to what a mission builder has built.
One other idea was an FM similar to Inverted Manse with three playstyles, maybe you could play the same mission as an Assassin, a Protector, and some middle ground/Neutral role(playing 2 factions off each other). Ah..I guess I'm just frustrated at the amount of work to build a mission..I want some shortcuts..;)
FireMage on 5/3/2014 at 09:41
Chain project? I heard Chain Project?!! COOL!!
Let me join it please! :D
I'm timeless but I can't stand living without dromeding! XD
With such project I'll be able to create something without spending all my freetime! :)
Yandros on 6/3/2014 at 17:42
The chain project FM was done years ago. So there isn't one to join now, unless some folks start a new one.
Renault on 6/3/2014 at 17:52
Quote Posted by zacharias
I still find myself considering ideas for Thief levels. But I think if I did another level it probably wouldn't be a massive improvement over what I've done before
I can only speak for myself, but I'd be just fine if you kept putting out FMs like Bones. Great mission.
zacharias on 7/3/2014 at 15:47
Thanks good Sir, but in some ways that (and Ep 2, if I ever finish it :tsktsk: getting ahead of myself with this thread) is a relatively straightforward mission. Though there is something to be said for a back to basics mission, I'd still like to play with the form a bit more, do something a bit more experimental.
There is still stuff to be got out of DromEd, but I also cannot commit to a big solo project right now. Wondering if other people feel the same: more experimental, smaller projects which people collaborate on would be an interesting production model in future? Also easing the months/years of time investment to produce an FM? Maybe it's just me being lazy though..
Soul Tear on 8/3/2014 at 12:43
In a joint project of all rests on the leader. If he disappears for a while, a project will collapse.
