Testers Needed: Alternative Thief 2 Patcher/Installer

Jax64 on 18/3/2019 at 03:38

Quote Posted by voodoo47

ah, one more thing that would be good to have - an unique OM mission fingerprint in each level. basically a quest variable that would positively identify all original missions as a T2 OMs.

No problem, this will be included in the next build. I am also compiling a proper changelog for missions changes so that there is no confusion.

Quote Posted by bassoferrol

A couple more things here

I have gotten the chance to look at these as well. As for the one in Precious Cargo, I remain unsure if that should be fixed. All elevators in the game exhibit the same behavior and it may be the case that it was intended.
I did fix the flicker on the rowboat, however. This was an issue with the object model rather than the missions themselves. The fixed model will be included in the next build of T2Fix and is also available (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GQU-GTwnyMLDayVmRX1KKg1JL4LTsvFA) here. The model is exactly the same as the original other than the metal bit on the bow, which has been moved slightly to remedy the flicker.

Quote Posted by Yandros

This is a good idea, although I would suggest naming them more descriptively. For instance, "Vanilla Installation: Engine and critical fixes only" and "Minor Graphics: Vanilla + Some basic graphics improvements" and "Everything: Vanilla + all available enhancements". The names and descriptions clearly indicate what they are choosing (well, at a high level) and you could also offer a "Manual Install" option where they choose On or Off for every bundled enhancement aside from NewDark. Those non-manual types could also simply pre-select values for all the combo boxes so they could select each one and see what it enabled/disabled from the full Manual list.

Here is what I have come up with today:

Inline Image:

https://imgur.com/43cpKwF.png

Setup now prompts the user to select an installation type with its own default components before continuing. I like this implementation because it allows the user to select his own default components based on what he wants. This effectively renders the issue of what default components should be set irrelevant, as it mandates a user choice before it is possible to continue setup.

To those who were concerned about this, how do you like this implementation?

voodoo47 on 18/3/2019 at 10:04

yeah, that looks good, will force the user to actually pick something without being too obtrusive, and get the "yore ruining mah game" crowd off your neck for good (uhh.. probably). I'd go for it. I assume "standard" is what has been preselected as default until now? if that's the case, the description could maybe use some tweaking, ex "overhauled missions and basic graphical enhancements". I would even consider not enabling the overhauled missions in the most basic/lite mode - if someone really wants to see the OMs in their oldDark state, who are we to judge?

also, the (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QtcPksdjpCrhHnn0brDmDdQ1hCN2mAQP) fingerprinted candle dmls, will now only load for a mission if the T2origmis qvar with a value of 1 is detected.

note that the skies can also be fingerprinted, and made to load for the OMs only. again, this is "free pretty stuff for most FMs" vs "you are ruining the original intention/breaking stuff in edge case scenarios where the FM is not set up properly". pick your poison.

lowenz on 18/3/2019 at 10:24

Link here on in PM every new beta when you'll release it, please! :)

baeuchlein on 18/3/2019 at 18:13

Quote Posted by Jax64

Here is what I have come up with today: [...]
To those who were concerned about this, how do you like this implementation?

I consider myself concerned, although I didn't post here yet.;)

I think it's a good idea. Anyone just wishing to quickly install something that works, or up-to-date-graphics, can easily get what (s)he wants by pre-selecting stuff, and then fine-tune the selection anyway. Anyone else can routinely go to the detailed selection mechanism anyway. Unless you forget to let people install/not install something highly wanted, critical, or controversial, this should please most people, I guess.:thumb:

And giving the user detailed choices is something I miss in many software packages today. So, set an example, and make the world a better place!:p

I also like that fingerprinting idea you two were talking about. While it should be fairly easy to check whether a change to a standard object messes up things in the OM's, it's difficult to say what will happen in one of the many FM's out there. Unless it's fairly difficult to implement, I would definitely recommend the fingerprint solution!:)

bassoferrol on 18/3/2019 at 18:25

And what about getting rid of the hints in the first three maps in normal difficulty.
Not such an occurrence in Thief Gold and I think it was better that way.

lowenz on 18/3/2019 at 23:43

Suggestion: add to T2Fix OpenAL Soft ( snd_oal_device OpenAL Soft / (https://github.com/kcat/openal-soft/releases) -> take & rename 32 bit DLL to soft_oal.dll + copy alsoft-config folder) as an alternative to standard OpenAL driver "Generic Software".

Jax64 on 19/3/2019 at 21:23

T2Fix 0.37 now includes the fingerprinted candles and missions, along with a redesigned components selection screen, as the previous one was somewhat unpleasing to the eye.

Inline Image:

https://i.imgur.com/FrAp71F.png

Quote Posted by baeuchlein

Anyone just wishing to quickly install something that works, or up-to-date-graphics, can easily get what (s)he wants by pre-selecting stuff, and then fine-tune the selection anyway. Anyone else can routinely go to the detailed selection mechanism anyway. Unless you forget to let people install/not install something highly wanted, critical, or controversial, this should please most people, I guess.:thumb:

And giving the user detailed choices is something I miss in many software packages today. So, set an example, and make the world a better place!:p

Absolutely. This was the idea behind this decision, as it gives the gives the user complete freedom while also maintaining ease of use. In my opinion, I should be the intent of no software to willingly suppress user choice.

Quote Posted by bassoferrol

And what about getting rid of the hints in the first three maps in normal difficulty.
Not such an occurrence in Thief Gold and I think it was better that way.

The hints in the first several missions are likely present to compensate for the lack of a training mission similar the Thief 1 had. While they can be removed, I do not think this would fall into the category of "fixes". Therefore, a change like this should probably not be included in a universal patcher, though could be made available separately, I suppose.

Quote Posted by lowenz

Suggestion: add to T2Fix OpenAL Soft ( snd_oal_device OpenAL Soft)

As long as this has the same compatibility as standard OpenAL, I would not be opposed to using it instead. Though would including the alsoft-config folder be necessary? The instructions only cite the DLL as necessary for installation.

lowenz on 19/3/2019 at 21:43

It gives more degrees of freedom, but it's not needed of course.

But it's important to set during the installation the correct device name, maybe letting the player to choose between generic/creative OpenAL drivers (as now) and the OpenAL Soft implementation (-> snd_oal_device OpenAL Soft)

snd_speaker_config is set by default to 0 or 2?

voodoo47 on 19/3/2019 at 21:56

looking good. I would perhaps leave out the legacy executables and Dromed in the full mode, those probably only should be selected manually by people who know exactly what that is and that they want it.

would maybe change "vanilla" to "basic", and the descriptions as well;
Basic: NewDark, Fixed Resources
Standard: NewDark, Fixed Resources, Basic Graphical Enhancements
Full: All Components

the idea is to be clear that standard also has everything basic has, and some more. no need to point out that critical fixes are included, as it's natural, and they can't be not installed anyway (at the moment, it's pretty much just the cam_ext stuff, and the gameys dml that makes sure the whole hard-edge/soft-edge transparency render order situation is resolved with maximum compatibility and visual fidelity).

would prefer to have the video preset selection back on the component screen if technically possible, but this is not too important.

also, now that the missions have that fingerprint qvar, there is no reason to not fingerprint Carry Body mission dmls (as those should definitely not load for anything else but OMs), just add the fingerprint block to each mission dml (miss1 as example):

Code:

DML1

FINGERPRINT
{
QVAR "T2origmis" == 1
}

//sword guards in this mission use different models
+ObjProp 533 "invlimbmodel" = "LMarcher01"
+ObjProp 521 "invlimbmodel" = "LMarcher01"
+ObjProp 213 "invlimbmodel" = "LMarcher01"
+ObjProp 217 "invlimbmodel" = "LMarcher01"
+ObjProp 106 "invlimbmodel" = "LMarcher01"
+ObjProp 198 "invlimbmodel" = "LMarcher01"
+ObjProp 207 "invlimbmodel" = "LMarcher01"
+ObjProp 262 "invlimbmodel" = "LMarcher01"

//Basso and Jenivere
+ObjProp 75 "invlimbmodel" = "LMbasso"
+ObjProp 177 "invlimbmodel" = "LMjenv"

as mentioned, the same thing can be done with the skies - I'm leaving the decision to you (I have to admit that I did fingerprint the skies in TFix in the end, it however needs to be noted that their potential to cause issues is much, much lower in the T2 environment).

Jax64 on 20/3/2019 at 06:02

Quote Posted by lowenz

Noted. OpenAL Soft is now implemented and is the default option. As long as it is compatible, I see no reason to use the generic OpenAL implementation, though it is still possible to use it by editing cam_ext.cfg if it is so desired.
The default speaker configuration is 0, meaning it is determined automatically.

Quote Posted by voodoo47

I would perhaps leave out the legacy executables and Dromed in the full mode, those probably only should be selected manually by people who know exactly what that is and that they want it; would maybe change "vanilla" to "basic", and the descriptions as well

I agree. In order to be as clear as possible as to what each type selects, a more detailed description should be given.
As for the fingerprinted Carry Body DMLs, they have been added. I do not think the same is necessary for the skies, as I have yet to witness a case where they have caused issues in an FM. Though, on the other hand, perhaps it would be good practice to eliminate any possibility of problems occurring.
The only issue that lies in doing this to such components is that it makes them incompatible with the original, non-fixed missions, since they do not contain the new quest variable. As of now, the Interactive Candles and Carry Body Mod are only selectable if the fixed missions are also selected.

Quote:

would prefer to have the video preset selection back on the component screen if technically possible, but this is not too important.

Is there a particular reason this would be preferred? It was moved during the redesign since it was a configuration option rather than a component that is either enabled or disabled, with the only drawback I can perceive being that the detailed description of each preset is no longer present. However, it is certainly possible to move it back to its original location if it is needed.