SubJeff on 2/7/2013 at 23:16
Quote Posted by dethtoll
That is exactly what you did.
No dethtoll, it really isn't. I don't think men should be in charge of these decisions and nothing I have said has suggested so.
Quote Posted by dethtoll
End of discussion.
So as soon as the discussion starts you bow out? Great.
june gloom on 2/7/2013 at 23:17
There's nothing to discuss, unless you're capable of giving birth. QED.
Vivian on 2/7/2013 at 23:17
Taking the specific example of Subj and his wife, say if she was pregnant and you didn't want it, then I don't think you have the right to make her have an abortion. Or vice-versa. Yeah you'd certainly have the right to talk to her about it and hopefully in this case she would listen to your opinions on the matter, but ultimately it's not your decision. And I think that scales to the broader issue.
SubJeff on 2/7/2013 at 23:21
If my wife is pregnant and neither of us want to have another kid and she is not allowed to abort it are you saying that I am not affected by this, at all? I think you'll find I am affected by that, and quite a fucking lot.
june gloom on 2/7/2013 at 23:25
Whether you want the kid or not is irrelevant. Whether she wants the kid or not is relevant. An abortion ban affects her, not you, because you're not the one who'll have to give birth. This is not hard to understand. Just because you got married doesn't mean her individuality suddenly ends.
SubJeff on 2/7/2013 at 23:37
Are you frikking serious? My wife being forced to take a child to term, with all the health risk that entails does not affect me? You've never been in a serious relationship have you?
I know you are focusing on the direct experience and health risk to the woman but that just isn't the be all and end all of this discussion, regardless of how integral and important it is.
One of the reasons I like the idea of input from everyone is that it's useful to have multiple points of view. As to "only women should be able to make decisions" - what about post-menopausal women? Where do they stand?
This isn't a highschool discussion topic, and in case you hadn't guessed I'm strongly pro-choice.
Vivian on 2/7/2013 at 23:38
Yeah, but there is also a difference between this being a decision that ultimately rests with women and NO MANS OPINION MATTERS.
june gloom on 3/7/2013 at 00:08
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
You've never been in a serious relationship have you?
You've never given birth have you?
SD on 3/7/2013 at 00:25
If men could give birth, it'd be legal to scoop the little buggers out right up til the waters broke.
SubJeff on 3/7/2013 at 00:31
Quote Posted by dethtoll
You've never given birth have you?
No, but I know almost 100% more than you about the subject.
I suppose that's why I'm so pro-choice - I've seen lots of horrible stuff and I'm well aware of the risks that come with pregnancy and forcing someone to carry a child they don't want to term is mental.
Funny thing is dethtoll, I'm fairly sure we're both pro-choice.
Edit: WTF summoning SD what the hell??!!
Yo SD o/ Heard you'd moved to... Netherlands?
this will end badly
