ZylonBane on 26/10/2013 at 17:27
I suppose that would be the workflow for someone who was incompetent. Anyone else would have already created the MTL file, and kept it open while they were working on it. But yes, the "View Material..." option does open the MTL file in a text editor.
Meanwhile, guess what, DromEd has nothing built in for editing bitmap images either. So by your logic bitmaps also aren't well-integrated into DromEd. Oh and jeebus, don't get me started on tweqs or animated lights-- can't preview those without going into game mode. So non-integrated!
Quote Posted by LarryG
No, if it were well integrated, it would have been implemented as parameters in the texture's archetype.
Actually, external material files is the way modern engines do these sort of things. Embedding all that in the gamesys would have been the horrible, dated, modder-unfriendly way to do it.
EDIT: Just tested this, if a texture initially does not have a material file, and you create one and then reload the texture, it will recognize it. No need to restart DromEd. Also, having DromEd automatically create a material file is NOT an option, because there's no way for it to know where in the many possible resource paths you want to create it.
LarryG on 26/10/2013 at 17:59
IMHO images of any sort are a different kettle of fish, as are bin files and sound files. But mtl files are a post-processing adjunct to texture files that tells the engine how to render them. They sit on the border between external file and internal file. I won't argue that this feature should have been implemented one way or another. It is what it is and I'm damn grateful for it. What I am saying, and continue to believe, is that they are awkward to use, especially when you are experimenting to find out just what the various options actually can do. Given what they are and the way they are implemented, a serious, highly detailed tutorial with workflow would be a great thing to facilitate their use. Since you seem to know all about them, why not give that a shot so that the rest of use all don't have to painfully rediscover what you already know?
Renzatic on 26/10/2013 at 18:36
LarryG's is right in the sense that it would be nice to have something like UDK's nodal material editor available to use. Something you can fire up and build your textures right inside of, so you don't have to go through the long process of tweaking your texture in a material file, then going ingame to see the results.
Thing is, that isn't something that HAS to be built into Dromed, and doesn't even have to be built around NewDark specifically. All the material definitions look like fairly bog standard DX arguments with maybe a few slight tweaks here and there for flavor. Someone with a bit of programming knowledge could build a standalone texture editor that can show you the final results immediately without having to jump through a few hoops to see them in action. Something like a text entry window on the left, and a preview window on the right would be perfect.
...though the hard part would be finding someone both capable and willing to do it. And until that time comes, the current setup you've all got is just fine. In practice, it's quite a lot like TDM's material system. They've been getting by just fine with it for years.
FireMage on 26/10/2013 at 19:14
Hmm...Wait for the end of my studies... I'm working in Science Computer and I'll learn "L'imagerie", so everything about images ad videos & computers...
I hope during this time I'll know by heart what the functions do and how to use it...
The thing that miss the most are: "TEMPLATES".
You know: While you're writting a function you can see a list of suggestion. That's very useful to avoid misspell.
And a command that check your mistakes like "Miscrosoft Word" while you're writing and a little window: "how to use the function".
Things to make it more confortable so. Because with this kind of work to do, many mappers have no motivations on using mtl.
Only the ones who dare to hardtest the mtl will use it.
I dislike hardtesting because that burst my freetime and the progression of all my numerous projects. (But I'll do it because that will help a lot. :))
So, the problem is simple: Too hard to understand/use/work.
But this is a very new matter so, it is understandable.
If no version 1.22 is made soon with a better way to write mtl file, with the time, we will know how to do it easily. For the moment we need research on that stuff...
ZylonBane on 26/10/2013 at 20:28
Quote Posted by Renzatic
LarryG's is right in the sense that it would be nice to have something like UDK's nodal material editor available to use.
Sure it would be nice, and I'd use the heck out of a visual material editor, but as you say the absence of one isn't as nearly as crippling as Larry makes out. It's just a programming language. Once anyone learns the language, they can write code in it with a pretty good notion of how it will look.
LarryG on 26/10/2013 at 23:14
Quote Posted by LarryG
Given what they are and the way they are implemented, a serious, highly detailed tutorial with workflow would be a great thing to facilitate their use. Since you seem to know all about them, why not give that a shot so that the rest of use all don't have to painfully rediscover what you already know?
Ahem. Until a visual material editor comes along, why not help out with a tutorial?
FireMage on 27/10/2013 at 10:46
That's what I'm trying to do! XD
Alas, I'm lack of time... So I'm slow in that project...
I suggest to split the job with someone. I test a part of the mlt commands, the other tested by someone else.
ZylonBane on 27/10/2013 at 15:03
Not sure what you mean by "test". The functions of all the commands are plainly described in the documentation.
PinkDot on 27/10/2013 at 17:05
I think some visual explanations of the new mtl commands wouldn't harm. Some people think and see in programming languages, others require some example images/videos to visualize.
Also I remember playing with water shader a year ago. There must be some different way the water shader is treated, as I could not achieve anything I intended. So some sort of testing done by a person or two would be very helpful for the community, so others don't have to spend days on discovering certain things.
LarryG on 27/10/2013 at 17:31
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Not sure what you mean by "test". The functions of all the commands are plainly described in the documentation.
is not the same thing as
helpfully described,
completely described, let alone
fully explained. I think that what is meant by
test is the process of experimenting with the possible parameter settings, parameter by parameter, singly and in combination, to see what the actual results are like in-game.
But since
you already know how they all behave, it would be much simpler for you to write a complete tutorial with screenshots ... assuming you want to help out.
