Motley Fool on 30/11/2010 at 20:47
I've been playing Thief off and on for I dunno how many years (8? 10?) but I'm still not entirely sure I can figure out all the different states of alertness a guard (or most any creature) can be in. The ones I know of are:
1) Normal, unaware state
2) Curiosity ("What'd I see over there?")
3) Alert and hunting ("Come out and fight me, you taffer!")
4) Spotting me ("Get the cuffs out - there's a thief here!")
5) Fighting (battle grunts and cries)
6) Lost me ("He got away!")
7) Alerting others ("Keep your eyes open - there's a thief around here!")
Some of these may not technically be different "states", but that's what comes to mind. What I'm mainly interested in are two questions:
1) The most common changes for guards states are 1->2->1. The change from Curiosity back to Unaware is always announced. ("oh well - it must have been nothing"). However there seem to be times when I'm perhaps slightly noisier than usual and a guard will go from 1->2 ("Hey, what was that?"), then never say anything else. He'll just give a cough, which I assume is him returning to Unaware, but is that really true? Or is he now in some in-between state of being slightly more alert than before?
2) If I draw too much attention, guards will go from 1->2->3 and hunt for me. If I stay quiet long enough, they seem to drop back down to 1 (and resume their patrols). But many times when I try to approach those guards quietly later, they'll appear to jump straight from 1->3 (whirl around, sword up, hunting mode), and sometimes even when I'm still 10 feet away creeping in the dark on carpet. What kind of thing triggers that?
ganac on 30/11/2010 at 21:29
Not all guards are considered equal. Did you know that?
Guards at early levels have lower hp, retreat sooner, move slower and and have less sensitive, uh, senses. As you advance, so do the guards. Advanced guards, like the ones at Gervasious' Manor will spend more time in curious and search mode. If they spot you, they will remain in "stage 2", or else move up to pursiut faster.
Basically, they are just on edge.
jtr7 on 30/11/2010 at 21:46
An AI at low alertness will still act like they are unaware, making them seem touchy if you don't know they are already up a notch. Some AIs are preset to be on alert, and sometimes the story lets the player know or hints at it. Sometimes, the player may do something in one area that alerts the AIs in a nearby area, and the player cannot see they have reacted and settled down a bit by the time the player arrives. Sometimes, when the mission is loading, some objects start out floating above a hard surface (like a vase above a table), and when the gravity turned on, they fell, and the loud landing alerted the AIs before the player arrives. Sometimes, the difficulty level was made a factor in the AIs' alertness.
Motley Fool on 2/12/2010 at 02:39
Quote Posted by ganac
Not all guards are considered equal. Did you know that?
That's interesting. No, I didn't know that.
I suppose I should have posted this in the Fan Mission forum, since that's really all I'm playing these days. I suppose FM authors have the ability to select which quality of guard they want? (more vs. less alert?)
Quote Posted by jtr7
An AI at low alertness will still act like they are unaware, making them seem touchy if you don't know they are already up a notch.
Yeah, I was just surprised that a guard that goes into Hunting mode may appear to drop back to Unware mode, and yet still flip instantly back to Hunting mode when I get close to him, regardless of whether I made any noise or if he even sought me. Seems unfair, and maybe even bug-like - I can never successfully blackjack that kind of guard. It's like he gets a proximity sensor that can find me in a 10 foot radius around him no matter what.
Ah well - keeps me on my toes. :)
jtr7 on 2/12/2010 at 02:54
It can take a long time for them to go back to fully unaware mode, and it's more realistic to remain suspicious, and in real life, suspicious for the rest of the shift and even into the next week, but...it is a puzzle game, so the reality of that has been toned way down.
Renault on 2/12/2010 at 04:28
Especially with FMs, authors can create all sorts of hyper-sensitive AI that don't act at all like the AI in the real game. This is partially why some of the Thief cheats don't work on FMs, like FailOnSee.
The most recent example I can think of was when I played All Souls Day in the Bathory Campaign. The first guard you encounter will not attack the player, similar to the guards at the beginning of Bafford's. However, even if you are completely out of view, and try to open the gate to escape, or knock an arrow from complete darkness, the guard immediately goes into Alert level 3. It made ghosting the level basically impossible.
Point is, if you're playing FMs, just about anything goes. I don't think you'll find any hard and fast rules on AI behavior.
cast on 2/12/2010 at 11:30
Actually, you can be spotted by a guard's rear end from a very long distance, provided that you're in a brightly lit area. Of course he needs to have gone into hunting mode first.
Sticky Fingers on 2/12/2010 at 16:44
Quote:
you can be spotted by a guard's rear end
Well, now, that's just not right :eww:
