The Citizen Kane of video games... - by Yakoob
Sulphur on 7/10/2009 at 22:55
If SS2 is the Alien of video games - and I don't quite agree to that - then SS1 is The Thing of video games.
If you're talking about a game that refines the B-movie horror template (fear of the unknown, closed spaces, existential dread, &c.) to something higher than the sum of its parts, then I'd posit that Silent Hill did it a fair bit better than SS2.
Highly subjective, I know. But that's the effect a topic like this has.
(blaht)
Phatose on 7/10/2009 at 23:09
The thing about SS2 being alien is that the horror in Alien was based entirely on it being a largely unknown force. You don't get a good look at the full grown alien til the last scene, information on it's nature is largely limited to 'It ate Brett, then it ate Dallas, and oh shit, where is Parker?' plus Ash/Mother, who frankly don't give a rats ass about lying, telling you the thing is invincible.
Shock 2, by comparison, really doesn't key in on fear of the unknown at all. Enemies don't sneak or stalk, they make plenty of noise, you see them and their capabilities all the time, and between audio logs and Shodan, their capabilities are no secret. You get the occasionally 'spiders spawned behind you, ahhh!', but it doesn't even try to get that horror of the unknown going. It's undeniably a hostile environment, but it isn't going for 'every shadow is stalking you.' like Alien does.
They're thematically similar enough to be the same genre, but beyond that I don't think they're all that related.
Pidesco on 7/10/2009 at 23:20
Quote Posted by Wormrat
The comparison shows how little you understand video games, because you want them to do what movies do.
For example, it doesn't make any sense to talk about a game escaping its "genre confines," because a video game's genre is determined by how it plays--i.e., its mechanics. The only way an FPS can escape its genre is by not being in first person and not being about shooting, in which case it would just... not be an FPS. You can add elements from other genres to create genre hybrids, but video game genres are not something you can
transcend.
Video game masterpieces already exist: they are the games that are absolute joys to play. I'm all for good writing and interesting plotting and non-standard themes and all that, but I don't know why people are pretending that messages and plot and visuals and themes or whatever are somehow going to make sucky games "mature." In other words, the meat of movies is the icing of games.
Obviously, escaping its genre confines doesn't mean that an FPS stops being an FPS, any more than that a movie about aliens stops being a movie about aliens because it abandons genre tropes. What it means that it doesn't follow its genre's basic tropes and mechanics like, for example, shooting everything that moves, or linearity, or scripted events, or whatever.
As an example, No One Lives Forever is an FPS but isn't just "about shooting."
Incidentally this sort of attitude towards games that states they are basic entertainment and that they should just do what says on the tin, is similar to the way a lot people saw movies in the early 20th century.
june gloom on 7/10/2009 at 23:48
Quote Posted by scarykitties
Whilst bored during my 241 American Literature course, actually.
Glad you think it's clever. I thought it was, too.
Though I'm not a huge fan of anime. Of course, since I don't know the medium, it would be ignorant of me to bash to whole thing in a blanket insult, wouldn't you agree?
Inline Image:
http://www.wisebread.com/files/fruganomics/imagecache/blog_image_full/files/fruganomics/blog-images/airplane.JPGQuote:
Planescape: Torment
No. It's the opposite problem of what Renzatic said. Instead of a story being shoehorned into the gameplay, it's the gameplay being shoehorned into the story. Planescape: Torment was severely crippled by its gameplay which was frankly quite shit. The story up until I gave up for the third time was excellent- brilliant, even. I loved peeling back the layers of what I read. Then the shitty Infinity Engine combat system kicks in and I'm like hrrhrhrhghghrhggh NO. They wasted a perfectly good story by tacking it to unfriendly, unforgiving gameplay. If there's ever a game that
needs a remake with an entirely different combat system, Planescape: Torment is it. And for those of you who like to say HURRRRR THE COMBAT ISN'T THE POINT, kill yourself and fuck the body. If the combat isn't the point of the game then they should at least have made it
bearable.
scarykitties on 7/10/2009 at 23:59
Quote Posted by dethtoll
If there's ever a game that
needs a remake with an entirely different combat system, Planescape: Torment is it. And for those of you who like to say HURRRRR THE COMBAT ISN'T THE POINT, kill yourself and fuck the body. If the combat isn't the point of the game then they should at least have made it
bearable.
I wouldn't say that the gameplay is great. Far from it, but nor is it vastly different than most other isometric RPGs of the time. For instance, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Arcanum, etc. They all functioned in much the same way (aside from obvious theme and setting differences). It didn't bother me that much, personally.
At least you pretty much got free, unlimited continues, seeing as how you'd respawn at the morgue. That was a very clever way to balance gameplay while staying true (and maybe even adding to) the plot and setting. I'd still reload if I died rather than run all the way back and bother with resurrecting companions, though. It was tedious, I'll grant that.
As for the movies versus games thing being about differences at the basic level, I agree. The movie needs to entertain passively, presenting everything to the viewer. The game has to entertain actively, presenting while still allowing the user the ability to interact. This means stopping direct plot progression in favor of handing the controls over to the player. This will inevitably slow down plot progression, but it's necessary to make a game a game. Otherwise it's just a very long cutscene that you paid fifty bucks for.
june gloom on 8/10/2009 at 00:04
Quote Posted by scarykitties
I wouldn't say that the gameplay is great. Far from it, but nor is it vastly different than most other isometric RPGs of the time. For instance, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Arcanum, etc. They all functioned in much the same way (aside from obvious theme and setting differences). It didn't bother me that much, personally.
lol
Fallout and Arcanum's gameplay operates on a different principle than BG and PS:T. Nice try though.
The Infinity Engine is just flatout shit. If PS:T's combat had been more like Fallout's, I'd probably have finished the game 5 times by now.
Pidesco on 8/10/2009 at 00:05
@wormrat
You do realize that the gameplay and "themes and narrative" aren't mutually exclusive, and in fact are complementary?
An excellent example of this is Alpha Centauri. The game is awesome at the fundamental, mechanical level, but made even better by the fact that there's a full narrative, plus a personality and agenda behind each faction. Moreover, not only do these create a background for the game but they influence the way the game is played and thus, indirectly, are gameplay. In turn, the gameplay itself influences how the narrative and themes are perceived by the player.
scarykitties on 8/10/2009 at 00:23
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Fallout and Arcanum's gameplay operates on a different principle than BG and PS:T. Nice try though.
Care to back that up with some examples? Such as saying that Infinity's multi-player style where each character is separately selected, rather than only the main character being directly controlled, can be pretty annoying. A valid point, that, but at least back up your assertions with a couple examples.
Sure, differing game engines will act differently, but you're still playing as (essentially) one character, clicking where to go and who to attack and what weapons to do so with, all in an isometric perspective. They're more alike than different.
I've never played Alpha Centauri. In fact, I've only heard it mentioned in passing a few times. PC, perchance?
Pidesco on 8/10/2009 at 00:36
Yes, it's PC. The really short description is that it's Civilization in space, but it's much, much more.
demagogue on 8/10/2009 at 00:37
Yes, Alpha Centari is for PC. Mechanically it's like Civilization set on a (hostile) alien planet. Instead of "races", you pick among "factions" (like the military faction, the gaia-naturelover faction, the scientists' faction, etc...) which all have their different ways of organizing society, technology, fighting, expansion, and colonization. The back-story that comes with all the mechanics is very well done.
