The Culture of Not Sharing

tarequeh on 30/12/2010 at 21:23

I hope Eidos Montreal is working hard on Thief 4. I really, really hope they're doing a great job.

But what happened to those days when developers released concept art? What about initial sketches on models? What about basic information e.g. what platforms in will be released on? How about some information on their initial take on respecting the roots of the installment?

Thief games have always enjoyed a very loyal community. There's a reason this website is called TTLG, in memory of the Looking Glass studios. There are people who still build and play Thief 1 & 2 fan missions. If you are building a game on a series that has this kind of following, please share some information and ask for feedback.

Instead, there's a growing tendency among developers/publishers to hold on to game details, almost intentionally since they know some of that might stir a lot of controversy. The controversial elements are usually aspects of the game fundamentally altered to get more commercial appeal. That's why it makes sense for developers to withhold progress information, in fear of criticism.

Just release a bunch of screenshots 3 months before release and no hue and cry will change anything since its already been developed and its too late to take feedback from fans.

Maybe I'm asking too much. Maybe I should be happy that some company even showed interest to make another Thief game.

But something doesn't feel right. What publishing timeline are we looking at with Thief 4? Late 2011? Early 2012? Shouldn't we receive the slightest detail about the future of our beloved series?

I just want to know if you guys share the same feeling. Also I like being in this forum even if there isn't much going on. So a conversation starter maybe?

lost_soul on 30/12/2010 at 21:52

To some extent, I agree. The sad truth is though that if the devs were to continuously share details about decisions being made in the game's development, we would have tuns of old cranky folks like myself saying: "OMG Don't Destroy Thief for the console masses!!11one".

I can understand them not wanting to encourage this type of thing. I followed the development of TDS almost religiously. It was going to be "the next AMAZING game" as far as I was concerned. The devs would even describe the new gameplay with the body-awareness and the per-pixel lighting. I think hearing about all of this encouraged me to rush out and buy the game on release (which I did).

So, sharing details with the fans has its ups and downs. I also think the existence of TDM helps to quiet us faithful PC Thief 1/2 players. Even if T4 is completely unmoddable, we have somewhere else to turn. We can play Thief 4 for the single-player experience and rely on TDM as a modern platform for fan missions.

Fafhrd on 30/12/2010 at 22:58

Expect details to start spilling out after Deus Ex releases. Right now, any marketing for Thief 4 will only distract from DX's marketing, which would be bad because they want the press and the public focused on that, since it's actually coming out soon(ish).

Thief 4 is probably looking at a 2012 release, anyway.

tarequeh on 31/12/2010 at 00:56

Putting some information out will definitely get fans excited, and will provide incentives for pre-orders. So I hope they'd start doing that soon.

As for Deus Ex development keeping people busy, its kinda odd that we have received so few screenshots/ description of the actually gameplay and the release is just few months away. The trailer didn't really give us much about the actual game, and looks pretty because it was produced by Square Enix video geniuses.

But again, my concern is for Thief 4, more than Deus Ex 3. I hope the PR folks would be more active before Thief 4 release, and for a longer period.

jtr7 on 31/12/2010 at 02:19

Quote Posted by Fafhrd

...you people...

:tsktsk:

Manwe on 31/12/2010 at 18:16

Quote Posted by tarequeh

But what happened to those days when developers released concept art? What about initial sketches on models? What about basic information e.g. what platforms in will be released on?

Right now I doubt they have anything to show.

Quote Posted by tarequeh

How about some information on their initial take on respecting the roots of the installment?

They probably don't give a shit about that, sadly.

Quote:

Thief games have always enjoyed a very loyal community. There's a reason this website is called TTLG, in memory of the Looking Glass studios. There are people who still build and play Thief 1 & 2 fan missions. If you are building a game on a series that has this kind of following, please share some information and ask for feedback.

There's no money to make in doing any of this.

Quote:

Instead, there's a growing tendency among developers/publishers to hold on to game details, almost intentionally since they know some of that might stir a lot of controversy. The controversial elements are usually aspects of the game fundamentally altered to get more commercial appeal. That's why it makes sense for developers to withhold progress information, in fear of criticism.

Completely wrong. Games have never been more publicized than today. Nowaydays screenshots are pretty much useless when high definition videos are available. And we're pretty much bombarded with those. You want to know what a game looks like, or plays like, just check out the gameplay trailers which are freely available on the web, usually way before the release of the game. Which is exactly the case with DX HR. The game probably won't be out for a while and we've already seen a shitton of trailers, and extensive gameplay footage. I mean just take your pick :

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iOZhnYeKqU)
(http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=deus+ex+human+revolution+gameplay&aq=f)
(http://www.gametrailers.com/game/deus-ex-human-revolution/5780)

Also there's something called teasing in marketing. First you get some artwork, some bullshit viral marketing (fake websites), and a PR asshole that tells you exactly what you want to hear, then come the bullshots (photoshopped screenshots), then you get some fancy cgi trailer, then some actual in game trailer, and finally when the release date approaches you're bombarded with gameplay trailers. This is how it was done with DX HR, that's probably how it will be done with thief 4 as soon as they start working seriously on it.

Quote:

Just release a bunch of screenshots 3 months before release and no hue and cry will change anything since its already been developed and its too late to take feedback from fans.

The truth is, it's too late, there are too few of us diehard PC gaming fans left to get ourselves heard. They don't even try to hide the fact that they don't give a shit anymore. You just have to accept it, you'll never see another game designed to be played with a keyboard and mouse. So either stop gaming, or get used to playing with a gamepad like everyone else.

tarequeh on 31/12/2010 at 20:41

Quote Posted by Manwe

I stand corrected. Some of the released videos DX:HR contain significant amount of gameplay. Screenshots are indeed rendered useless in many cases, but act as better media for scrutinizing details. As for the vigorous publicizing of games, its just more aggressive and expensive (in order to ensure return on investment) and has a much shorter lifespan than the older days, when it was lighter but longer. I also think this results into a much reduced lifespan for the game itself.

Quote Posted by Manwe

The thoughts of giving up expectations for quality titles developed primarily for PC makes me feel quite sad. In the process of trying to adapt to consoles, I bought a PS3 and then a year later an Xbox 360. The interface (gamepad) frustrated me to no end and now I'm back on PC. I am happy for all the folks who will be enjoying Thief 4 on their consoles, but if the PC port (can't believe I'm saying this, but most games these days are first developed for Xbox 360 and then ported to PC) is done badly, The Dark Mod will remain my only consolation.

I'm sure EM is doing a lot of concept art for Thief 4 at this stage, and I would give anything to lay my eyes on them. Thief series has an artistic appeal like no other. The world, the characters, the culture is just fascinating and professionally done artworks on these are just too valuable to be missed. Am I crossing my boundary of entitlement here?

T-Smith on 2/1/2011 at 16:28

I think not sharing information at this stage, when anything in development is subject to change, is an excellent choice. I have one example to back up my opinion: BioShock.

BioShock is, for the most part, well liked around here. The hate that IS heaped on it though, doesn't seem to stem from the game itself. Rather, it stems from the information first released and shown about the game, the promises made, and the hype-train that was set loose on TTLG by the developers. So much of the game changed but no one ever came over to say "Hey guys, half of what we've told you no longer applies." As such, many went into it expecting art-deco "spiritual succesor" System Shock.

What we got was an excellent game in its own right. But by releasing information too early before things were finalized, Irrational screwed itself over with a lot of die-hard fans who didn't get what was promised; the game that was released was very different from the one originally shown and talked about.

Honestly, I'd rather wait to see any news on Thief 4. Eidos seems to be focussing on Deus Ex 3 right now, so let them finish that completely. Then, once they've put all their energy into Thief 4, once its at a stage where what they show and tell us is actually going to be in the game, THEN start the hype.

Otherwise the whole thing just might end in disapointment.

Digital Nightfall on 2/1/2011 at 16:34

I just hope they don't announce the game at E3.

lost_soul on 2/1/2011 at 23:53

I've always preferred to see in-game videos to get an idea of what a game will be like. Any monkeys can produce a great-looking CG cut-scene.