d'Spair on 21/10/2009 at 19:23

---

Making architecture looking less 'boxy' doesn't nececerilly requires a heavy brushwork. Let's compare two screenshots.

Number one - Doom 3:

(http://www.file-extensions.org/imgs/app-picture/1328/doom-3-pc-game.jpg)

Number two - The Dark Mod:

(http://www.mindplaces.com/darkmod/screen48.jpg)


I'm pretty confident that the polycount of the both scenes is not that different: there are maybe more polygons used to crate the Doom 3 scene, than The Dark Mod scene, but not that much more. However, if you take a look at both pictures, I'm sure you will agree with me that the first pic looks much better. Look at all these tiny details everywhere. Look at the walls, how they are much more interesting and detailed than what we see in the case with the Dark Mod. In the Dark Mod screenshot, the far wall looks downright boring. The texture is shallow and boring, it has no detail needed to create an illusion of a realistic surface.

This is all due to the texturing. id tech 4 (as well as any more or less up-to-date game engine) is a great tool to create highly-detailed looking enviroinments only when you masterfully combine brush work and texturing. Due to the great texturing almost no corners in Doom 3 look sharp, 90 degree corners. Bumpmapping effects make them look smooth. The combination of smooth, rounded architecture and nicely detailed, greatly bumpmapped textures make Doom 3 look incredible even these days. Unfortunately, I can't say that I'm equally impressed by the quality of the architecture and textures provided with The Dark Mod.

This is not criticism as it is - you guys are not id Software, and this is not your payed job. What I'm talking about is that if one wants to make a really great looking enviroinment using both high polycount and top-notch textures (and making these textures is a huge challenge), it will take months of time no matter how experienced a mapper is.

Yes, we all love Thief despite its quite primitive architecture, and we play FMs that mostly don't impress graphics-wise. But this is Thief, made in the late 90s, and we judge it by 90s standards. Now we have Doom 3 engine, and we know what might be done with this engine, and this is exactly why boxy architecture looks, well, boxy in Doom 3 if done wrong. I know that graphics is not the key thing about Thief, or Dark Mod, or whatever game, but if Dark Mod was not made to let mappers create AAA-looking missions, than what for?

demagogue on 21/10/2009 at 19:44

---

The issue here was that equipping your sword, or especially the bow, bumps up your visibility and slows you down, and there's no necessary connection between picking up a weapon and wanting to use it (most times you're filching it from a chest or table in a room where you probably want to stay hidden). I think they did it mostly for when you pick up arrows, your bow doesn't come up, which was very annoying. And then the sword was integrated into that system for consistency. Between those two options, it's less-worse that it doesn't come up. I don't know about giving the player the option; have to talk to the higher-ups about what issues that might raise. If they made everything a player-option it's a kind of feature-creep; but it's worth mentioning if you care about it, which I guess you just did.



I believe the better question is: "So what are you waiting for?"
We need more maps, the tools are there, nothing's stopping you...

242 on 21/10/2009 at 20:17

---

It doesn't matter how it looks compared to Doom3, but how it looks compared to T1/2. That TDM screen easily beats most of T1/2 FM screens in terms of details.



It's just a personal attitude, or more a fad so to say. I personally don't care how an engine is called and when it was created if the result looks generally better than it looked before.




I believe that's not the main reason. Now you can create what previously was simply impossible or required hacks and tricks and still looked bad. Tense looking forests, bogs, ships/trains that actually move, larger than ever maps, MUCH MUCH more sophisticated physics and acrobatics based riddles, etc. etc. etc etc.

Renault on 21/10/2009 at 20:40

---

I think the TDM shot posted above looks great. You really can't compare the interior of a medieval era mansion with the hanger of some 24th century military complex. I think the main thing with TDM is that, even though most Thief fan aren't that into graphics, this at least brings us into the modern age. Plus, there's no concerns about old non-compatible hardware or new operating systems that Thief won't run on.

d'Spair on 21/10/2009 at 20:58

---

I think I might try building something in Dark Radiant, but not now. I simply don't have a few months to spare. It will take me thrice more time to build a decently sized mission for The Dark Mod, than the mission of the same size in DromEd.



OK then:

(http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/doom3/caverns2/15.jpg)
(http://home.swbell.net/dandrea2/Doom3shot00008.jpg)