Kerrle on 21/10/2009 at 21:30
Well, to be fair, there is a legitimate argument to be made for what you might call set dressing, even with simple geometry. That's okay, though - there are several areas of the Dark Mod that are already quite good in this respect, so the tools are there. We just need to give mappers time to learn what works and what looks good.
The same was true of Thief I/II - we all like the original missions, sure, but they can definitely look plain compared to what you see in some newer missions like A Night in Rocksbourg. It's not a limitation of the mod but rather a question of artistry, and that will come with time as map makers get more familiar with the tools.
Fripper on 21/10/2009 at 21:57
Thanks again guys for this great mod.
Love the mod. From catching myself craning my neck to look around corners, to the ultra cool credits reminiscent of T1/T2 it feels to me like Theif. Excellent work.
I found a small anomaly while playing the training mission. In the sword fight arena, I promptly went up to the balcony to practice my archery skills. Leaning out and then back behind a wooden beam I had the swordsman start mutating on me.
It looked like part of their body was getting stuck on the rope and the other part kept going forward. It was actually kinda neat :D
Screenshots:
(
http://picasaweb.google.com/tshann/DarkMod#)
Everything else ran smooth as silk. I had a great time running through the missions and can't wait for more.
bukary on 21/10/2009 at 22:27
d'Spair, detailed architecture and map aesthetics are all up to the mapper. I think DM allows you to create beautiful interiors and exteriors.
And Dark Radiant is not that difficult. Few years ago I could devote some time to DM. I really had no idea about Doom Radiant. I took me few days to read and watch various tutorials and figure out how everything works. After one week I was able to create eg. this location in literally one evening (and I am sure that more talented mappers would do it much faster):
Inline Image:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1065/kosciol1.jpgInline Image:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3571/kosciol5.jpgIt was created with standard Doom Radiant (or whatever it is called) and very few assets (textures, models) that were avaible then. Now you have Dark Radiant with tons of improvements for Thief missions. This location is not very fancy or detailed, but it shows that even some unexperienced mapper can create something interesting really quick (it has water, fog etc. - and back then it required me to write my own scripts; as far as I know Dark Radiant gives you such possibilities out-of-the-box now).
That's why I wouldn't worry about "boxy architecture". But there are other more important tasks for Dark Mod team or Thief community. IMHO these elements still need improvements:
A) AI animations.
B) Sounds.
C) Some game mechanics (eg. swinging rope, too sensible AIs, too fast arrows and... no sword backslash ;) ).
But I believe that DM will still evolve and Thief fans will get tool that might be as good and fruitful as DromEd or even better (with Doom3 source code becoming avaible). It just needs some tweaking and lots of new textures and models.
Great work, DM team! :thumb:
ascottk on 21/10/2009 at 22:37
Quote Posted by Fripper
Thanks again guys for this great mod.
Love the mod. From catching myself craning my neck to look around corners, to the ultra cool credits reminiscent of T1/T2 it feels to me like Theif. Excellent work.
I found a small anomaly while playing the training mission. In the sword fight arena, I promptly went up to the balcony to practice my archery skills. Leaning out and then back behind a wooden beam I had the swordsman start mutating on me.
It looked like part of their body was getting stuck on the rope and the other part kept going forward. It was actually kinda neat :D
Screenshots:
(
http://picasaweb.google.com/tshann/DarkMod#)
Everything else ran smooth as silk. I had a great time running through the missions and can't wait for more.
That looks like the animation channels got screwed up (torso separating from the legs). D3 can control each channel separately so the AI can keep the running animations in the legs while the torso is swinging while the head is looking up and the eyelid channel is blinking while the jaw is lipsyncing. It could be a corrupt .def file or a script file.
242 on 21/10/2009 at 22:38
Quote Posted by bukary
IMHO these elements still need improvements:
A) AI models and
animations.
B) Sounds.
Agreed. Animations and sounds lag behind the most, they still clearly are on amateurish side, while everything else crossed the border.
About animations. It seems that current TDM animations use much fewer points on the body than are required for lifelike animations. I wonder how Penumbra guys did animations, they were quite decent in Black Plague as for those that were done without proper equipment. There was a bonus video on the disc and it showed a dev filming the motions, and then it was compared with the result. It was so close, almost like they used mo-cap equipment. Maybe plain filming of the needed motions (i.e. amateurish mo-cap :) ) will help to improve animations?
IMO, lifelike and fluid animations (at least of T2 quality) would increase good impression of the mod tenfold.
BTW, the rat I saw in the Chalice of Kings was animated perfectly ;)
bukary on 21/10/2009 at 22:48
Yes, you are right, 242; I had AI animations in mind. AI models are really good. Editing...
SubJeff on 22/10/2009 at 01:23
Okay guys, this is a repost from the TDM forums.
Komag made this map for testing. It contains basic "remakes" of the following:
- Lord Bafford's Manor
- Assassins
- Undercover
- Song of the Caverns
- The Haunted Cathedral
- Return to Cathedral
- (plus the Stonemarket/St Edgars section from TDS)
Now check his out fo shizzle:
(
http://www.shadowdarkkeep.com/oddpics/Komag_city_huge.jpg)
Oh yes.
Ishtvan on 22/10/2009 at 02:24
Quote Posted by muncadunc
Thirding (fourthing?) what people have been saying about the sword system. Having the slash direction be controlled by the mouse (which you are also aiming and controlling your movement with) is just too much.
I'd rather the slash direction was controlled by which side of the enemy you're pointing at- like in the original Thief games. It worked. The current system is a major pain.
The control system was inspired by the game "Mount & Blade," which pulled it off very well. There isn't any fundamental reason why those controls "just won't work." Using direction keys to control the attack direction limits the kind of footwork you can do while fighting. For example, suppose you want to retreat backwards or sidestep while making a certain attack. If you had to press a different direction key to choose that attack, you would not be able to keep moving as intended.
I have played games like "Escape from Butcher Bay" that use the direction keys to choose the attack, and it always feels like your feet are planted in place while you make the attack. For a lightly armored thief trying to evade a charging, heavily armord guy, this would be death.
You could argue that you just need to tap the key for a moment, so it doesn't really interfere with movement. The same can be said about using the mouse. It requires a very slight move to choose a direction, so you can just nudge it for a moment, then continue to aim the attack or look around or whatever else you want to do with the mouse.
Also, if you're having trouble choosing the attack while also aiming, you can keep holding down attack after you've selected an attack, and delay the actual swing until you have aimed. This might be a good way to practice until you get more comfortable with it.
In some future version, we could include the option (that Mount & Blade had) to have the attack direction based on where the enemy is relative to your "crosshairs". We didn't include that in this first release, because it takes control away from the player (if you are facing more than on enemy, it has to guess which one you really want to attack). It also ends up being slower: If you are at close range, you have to traverse a large angle to get from one side of the enemy to the other, whereas the mouse direction control still takes the same small movement.
clearing on 22/10/2009 at 03:10
Cool.
