New Horizon on 11/10/2009 at 20:36
Quote Posted by R Soul
In that case: Bloody hell. That Dark Mod still looks great, but I don't think a scoring feature is necessary.
Why not? There were end of mission stats in Thief 1 and 2.
demagogue on 11/10/2009 at 20:58
The usual statistics don't keep track about your actual stealth, though.
Rather than starting from 100 and working its way down, though, it might be better for zero to be perfect, and each type of bust adds points, with no upper boundary. So a lower score is better, and it doesn't skew, eg, a small FM with few opportunities for busts or a massive one where you could still be doing good though you've had a few busts, by suggesting an "80" score for both is commensurate.
So a "zero" baseline works better for allowing big and small FMs, and might work better for player incentives... Beyond trying to perfectly ghost something (and the score acknowledges that you really did it), a score is just a natural way to encourage people improve their stealth in the margins ... an incentive to do one little part a little more stealthily so their score is a little lower. You could think about it like a golf score. Lower is better. And each mission might have a "par" score (maybe in parentheses); something the builder provides as a target to shoot for and to improve on. And a zero baseline sends a clearer message how you might improve (e.g., over a "par" score) than a 100 baseline.
Malleus on 11/10/2009 at 21:06
Quote Posted by demagogue
The usual statistics don't keep track about your actual stealth, though.
You could just include alerts, and whatever else the score takes into account, in the stats. I just don't see the need for translating it into points or percentage or whatever.
Not a big deal, just something I didn't like in other stealth games.
R Soul on 11/10/2009 at 21:09
I don't mind a mention of how many people I knocked out etc, I just don't like the idea of a score. Except for loot of course.
Kerrle on 11/10/2009 at 21:16
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Why not? There were end of mission stats in Thief 1 and 2.
Stats are just stats. A score is a judgmental valuation of your playing style. I don't think it's really necessary.
Having said that, it's not something that would stop me from playing.
demagogue on 11/10/2009 at 21:22
Quote Posted by Malleus
You could just include alerts, and whatever else the score takes into account, in the stats. I just don't see the need for translating it into points or percentage or whatever.
Not a big deal, just something I didn't like in other stealth games.
But all that that score is, is a record of the number of alerts. You could spend 4 lines saying "Number of green alerts: W. Number of yellow alerts: X. Number of orange alerts: Y. Number of red alerts:Z." etc... But if you give a point-value to the different types of alerts, it's easy to give one number that has all that information.
I mean, it's most useful for ghosters to have a single stat that lets them know they really ghosted it, e.g., that there wasn't a bust that they didn't hear. Other people don't have to care about it as much, but it has a record of how much they alerted the AI if they care.
Sheesh, it's not like a literal "score" of how much the game likes your playing or not, like console-game scores. It's just a simple way to record how many and what level of alerts you've raised. If you don't like the actual label "Score", what about "Stealth Statistic (Number * Type of Bust)"?
Chade on 11/10/2009 at 21:23
stats vs scores == arguing over a name
There's no real difference.
New Horizon on 11/10/2009 at 21:44
They're stats, we're not consolizing TDM, relax and move on.
R Soul on 11/10/2009 at 22:20
Moving on. I'd also like to point out that I am responsible for the 'stark mod' tag.
jtr7 on 11/10/2009 at 23:39
My biggest problem with stats, which I never had issue with until after Thief 4 was announced, is the mentality of seeking a high score, seeking to beat a previous score, rather than playing the map thoroughly and gaining 100% of the loot and secrets. In TMA, the KOs while airborne weren't accurate as I could make gains by knocking an AI out between the PC's footsteps: Clump...........clump...thud!...clump....; both "feet" off the ground between steps.
Anyway, stats that are the impetus to explore a map, rather than understanding that thorough exploring is a major point of playing the game anyway, should be diminished in importance.
