MoroseTroll on 29/10/2009 at 15:50
scarykitties: Much more powerful than TDS' Flesh Engine ;). Inject into id Tech 4 some modern graphics features like parallax, HDR and simple global illumination, and it will serve to the Thief-community for a ten years. Inject into it some modern rendering technology like photon maps, and it will serve for another ten years :).
Schwaa2 on 29/10/2009 at 16:37
The engine is pretty friendly IMO. I had used it some before when doing work for the team, but that was a year ago, so I had to relearn. Plus I never did too much in the editor. Built a few facades/test zones/scraps.
I did spend the last year making Team Fortress 2 maps in Hammer which is similar, but all shortcuts and more tools are different. DR has alot more to offer on the whole.
I also gotta say that Fidcal's work helps alot. When I fired it back up I started with his starter pack, but haven't used it much yet, it contains books, AI, goals, etc... and I haven't got that far yet.
He also wrote the A-Z guide (mentioned above) and I used it to get reaquainted with the tools.
And the Wiki is invaluable. I have had it open and cross reference it alot.
So beginning it is probably a little slower, but the A-Z walks you through all the basics really quickly. Once done with that you just learn to 'fine tune' more.
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@scarykitties,
At one point when I was testing I had over 60,000 polies on screen, I think it can be pushed to well over 120,000. Dromed is 1,024 (which doesn't count objects, but there is a limit of 200[?] on screen). Dark Radiant just counts all polys.
That was back before alot of optimizing had been done too.
Entity limit is around 8,000. Ai, arrows, lights... I think you need to stop adding stuff around 6,000 for ingame spawn stuff like arrows, particles to have room. Dromed is 2,000, but I have bumped it up to 4,000 in a mission.
You do have to be careful with lights, too many shadow casting lights touching the same polys is what can kill framerates. So in the dining room I have 2 light sources (one no shadow) for the chandelier, then the 3 lit ones around the room. The corner ones don't overlap each other, but do overlap the main lights. So there are only 2 shadow lights touching the same polys anywhere in the room, if there were 6 (shadow casting lights on same polys) FPS would drop hard. Like 6 candles that cast shadows in one small corner would kill it as they are all rendered in real time, all those shadows jumping around would be expensive. 6 candles around a large room is not too big of a deal.
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Another thing that is gonna make it real easy to map is prefabs. There are already a few. Like that dining table, I hit insert prefab>dining table-8 settings (or whatever the name is) and drag it where I want. All silverware, candlesticks, chairs in place. Then I moved some around a bit.
There will be more and more prefabs over time too. You just put stuff together (like food on a shelf), save as prefab and anyone can load it right up. Then you can add, delete, move stuff around so they don't all look the same.
Stuff like basic 'filler' buildings and whatnot will be added too.
The skyboxes are prefabs...
242 on 29/10/2009 at 16:57
Quote Posted by sparhawk
How fast is your machine and how big is your memory? If it fits into memory, Doom 3 can run it. :p
But I guess missions of Night in Murkbell or Mission X's size won't be possible for quite a while? Considering that I had some noticeable slowdowns in some places even in the very small mission like The Chalice, I have some doubts about possibility of really large missions in the nearest future...
Especially keeping architectural detail level of The Chalice.
Wormrat on 29/10/2009 at 17:18
I was wondering about that myself, but I don't think those frame rate drops have anything to do with architectural complexity. I just posted in the "Chalice" FM thread asking about it.
Schwaa2 on 29/10/2009 at 17:20
Well, you use portals to split area up for sound and rendering.
So you can have a really detailed spot, go around a corner with a properly set-up visportal and none of the stuff around the corner will be rendered.
Just like T2 you have to block line of sight as much as you can for best performance.
Midnight in Murkbell was large and looked great but didn't have tons of detail. Alot of it's beauty just came from better than stock textures, not physical details.
I never got great performance in it though as it was pushing the max of Dromed and the machine I had to run T2.
Same goes for Dark Mod. If you build a mission that looks the same as T2 performance will be excellent. (blockier terrain, no shadow lights...)
But then you have the option of pushing it as much as you can (Saint Lucia was that before alot of optimizing-when updated it should run alot better).
That same exact mission could be laid out in DR and probably run alot better with more details (not building detail, but shadow lights, more detailed AI, objects, etc...).
jaxa on 29/10/2009 at 18:28
Quote Posted by 242
But I guess missions of Night in Murkbell or Mission X's size won't be possible for quite a while? Considering that I had some noticeable slowdowns in some places even in the very small mission like The Chalice, I have some doubts about possibility of really large missions in the nearest future...
Especially keeping architectural detail level of The Chalice.
Lord Alan's Factory :D
Melan on 29/10/2009 at 18:37
That would actually be easier than Murkbell. LAF has fairly simple geometry, it is just huge and filled with detailed objects.
jaxa on 29/10/2009 at 19:40
Quote Posted by Melan
That would actually be easier than Murkbell. LAF has fairly simple geometry, it is just huge and filled with detailed objects.
There's still unanswered questions about how hard it would be to build or run such a massive mission, even if it does have simpler geometry, right?
I can't wait to see how far the boundaries get pushed with TDM, since we're at the beginning of the process.
Yandros on 29/10/2009 at 20:19
If you look at how far this community has pushed Dark compared to 10 years ago, and then realize that we'll probably be able to push farther and faster with TDM (especially once the engine is OS), the prospects are tantalizing.
New Horizon on 29/10/2009 at 20:24
Quote Posted by Yandros
If you look at how far this community has pushed Dark compared to 10 years ago, and then realize that we'll probably be able to push farther and faster with TDM (especially once the engine is OS), the prospects are tantalizing.
Yup, when id software releases the engine as open source, there are really no limits...beyond those of the wishes of the community.
