The deities of the Thief universe.. - by YcatX
YcatX on 13/8/2012 at 04:59
Okay.. Let's look at this a different way...
Why are zombies and haunts still 'alive'?
WTF are burricks and why are they on the same team as Undead and Spiders? In TDP, I would lure the zombies to the hammerites and make bets on who would survive. Anyway, I get back to those in a second... So we have now:
The Builder: Law Domain, Protection Domain, Healing Domain
The Trickster: Chaos Domain, Trickery Domain, Evil Domain
Karras: Destruction Domain, Knowledge Domain, Air Domain
Viktoria: Plant Domain, Animal Domain, Earth Domain
Gruliac: Magic Domain, Strength Domain, Death Domain
Open Domains: Fire, Good, Luck, Sun, Travel, War, and Water
I'm thinking about making Garret deity, but I dunno. Also, most deities have 4 domains each with plenty of overlaps, so I need to add some of my RoO deities... I wanted other people's opinion too.
Vae on 13/8/2012 at 06:18
Quote Posted by YcatX
Why are zombies and haunts still 'alive'?
Haunts and zombies are both Undead creatures, and sustain their existence via the Negative Plane of Energy.
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WTF are burricks and why are they on the same team as Undead and Spiders?
The Burrick is a lizard-like creature of the wild. The Burricks and the Spiders co-habitate in the wild and do not consider each other prey, so they leave each other alone. Zombies are drawn to the life-force of sentient creatures (Humans), so they have no interest in non-sentient animals, and therefore do not attack them unless provoked. Likewise, Burricks and Spiders have no interest in Zombies, because there simply isn't any meal to be had...So that is why they all leave each other alone.
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The Builder: Law Domain, Protection Domain, Healing Domain
The Builder god is the personification of primordial force of Order (Lawful Neutral alignment)...and is a Deity.
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The Trickster: Chaos Domain, Trickery Domain, Evil Domain
The Trickster god is the personification of the primordial force of Chaos (Chaotic Neutral alignment)...and is a Deity.
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Karras: Destruction Domain, Knowledge Domain, Air Domain
Karras was a Hero of Order, a Human, in service of The Builder god...and is not a Deity.
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Viktoria: Plant Domain, Animal Domain, Earth Domain
Victoria was a Hero of Chaos, a Nature Spirit, in service of The Trickster god...and is not a Deity.
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Gruliac: Magic Domain, Strength Domain, Death Domain
Gruliac was a Hero of Chaos, a Kurshok king, in service of The Trickster god before the betrayal...and is not a Deity.
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I'm thinking about making Garret deity, but I dunno.
Garrett is a Hero of Balance (True Neutral alignment)...and he serves no mortal or Deity.
YcatX on 13/8/2012 at 15:18
Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the response!
Quote Posted by Vae
Haunts and zombies are both Undead creatures, and sustain their existence via the Negative Plane of Energy.
Yeah, it makes sense, but if we are dealing with primordial elements that make up reality in the Thief universe, there has to be more to it than undead being merely buckets of negative plane energy. I think the Hammerites and Mechs are innately evil for example. The evil energy and death surrounding their ruins seem to generate undead. The Eye? You know it kinda spins me in a different direction, where Constantine isn't actually the Trickster because all the deities were sealed away (like from my RoO campaign). Constantine just stole the energies using the eye. I'll have to think about this some more.
Quote Posted by Vae
The Burrick is a lizard-like creature of the wild. The Burricks and the Spiders co-habitate in the wild and do not consider each other prey, so they leave each other alone. Zombies are drawn to the life-force of sentient creatures (Humans), so they have no interest in non-sentient animals, and therefore do not attack them unless provoked. Likewise, Burricks and Spiders have no interest in Zombies, because there simply isn't any meal to be had...So that is why they all leave each other alone.
Creature of the wild? Why were Burricks not in the Maw, but Spiders (lots and lots of them) were.
Quote Posted by Vae
The Builder god is the personification of primordial force of Order (Lawful Neutral alignment)...and is a Deity.
So you agree that the Builder isn't exactly good?
Quote Posted by Vae
The Trickster god is the personification of the primordial force of Chaos (Chaotic Neutral alignment)...and is a Deity.
Hmmmm
Quote Posted by Vae
Karras was a Hero of Order, a Human, in service of The Builder god...and is not a Deity.
I don't exactly agree with the idea of a Hero of Order. Karras pushed the bounds of technology and even created 'life', and the rust gas. In my way of seeing things, anyone who is worshiped is deity, but a minor one.
Quote Posted by Vae
Victoria was a Hero of Chaos, a Nature Spirit, in service of The Trickster god...and is not a Deity.
Viktoria is definitely a deity. She has the Pagans, and the beasts (Ape and Tree) under her command.
Quote Posted by Vae
Gruliac was a Hero of Chaos, a Kurshok king, in service of The Trickster god before the betrayal...and is not a Deity.
I'm going to have to do more research on Gruliac. I'm starting to get over being pissed about taking away rope arrows.
Quote Posted by Vae
Garrett is a Hero of Balance (True Neutral alignment)...and he serves no mortal or Deity.
Garret, ah, Garret. A dude that can see ghosts and has a bluetooth eyecam. Thief of the gods. He would have to have followers, and cult. I don't think so. I'll think more about this...
BrokenArts on 13/8/2012 at 16:48
But Garrett does serve the Keepers from time to time, whether he wants to or not. He only thinks he's alone, yet someone keeps pulling him back, no matter how hard he tries to go at it alone.
MsLedd on 13/8/2012 at 22:21
ME (duh!) :cheeky:
YcatX on 13/8/2012 at 23:33
Quote Posted by MsLedd
ME (duh!) :cheeky:
Since I'm writing all this for my D&D (3.5) game, welcome to the pantheon!
New Deity: Lady Luck AKA "Ledd" (Luck, Travel, Water, and Good). She is mysterious as the tides (as just as moody) and patron deity of sailors. Ironically wrote up the idea today, but I had no idea about a personification; it's funny how things work out. Stories and folk-lore tend to write themselves. :D
None of my players will know what it's all about anyway. My RoO campaign came from my D&D campaign, and these are the same players from back before 1999. It's almost as good as chocolate. Almost...
EDIT: Trying to find a pirate/steam-punk image is tricky. Got one in mind?
Beleg Cúthalion on 14/8/2012 at 08:04
I really doubt that "personification of" is the appropriate description of saying what a certain deity represents according to the people who worship it. There's a bloody good chance that these deities represented something rather different at earlier times of the in-game history, we just don't have enough clues.
The main difference between the Builder and the Trickster is, however, that the former never appears in person, which makes his existence more cloudy. There is a short remark about it in one of those ex-LGS employees podcasts.
Vae on 14/8/2012 at 08:24
Quote Posted by YcatX
Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the response!
You're welcome!...:)
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Yeah, it makes sense, but if we are dealing with primordial elements that make up reality in the Thief universe, there has to be more to it than undead being merely buckets of negative plane energy. I think the Hammerites and Mechs are innately evil for example. The evil energy and death surrounding their ruins seem to generate undead.
The Hammerites and Mechanists are not inherently evil...They simply serve Order (Lawful Neutral alignment). Good and Evil are variable, and are of lesser consequence. Undead abound everywhere within The World*, and are not isolated occurances within Hammerite tombs.
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Creature of the wild? Why were Burricks not in the Maw, but Spiders (lots and lots of them) were.
Spiders seem to have an affinity with Chaos, and likely originated from within The Maw (Plane of Chaos), later to slowly infiltrate The World* as The Trickster god would certainly desire. The Burricks are simply neutrally aligned animals of The World, having no affiliation with the forces of Chaos or Order.
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So you agree that the Builder isn't exactly good?
In the THIEF Universe, Good and Evil play a secondary role, with their importance being diminished by the dominant forces of Chaos and Order that saturate The World*. For The Builder god, Good and Evil actions are simply utilized as a means for victory for Order...the same can be said for The Trickster god, as well (victory for Chaos). To either god, Good and Evil are only relevant as tools to achieve their ultimate ends.
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I don't exactly agree with the idea of a Hero of Order. Karras pushed the bounds of technology and even created 'life', and the rust gas. In my way of seeing things, anyone who is worshiped is deity, but a minor one.
Karras was an engineering supra-genius, and a mastermind who was aligned with the forces of Order...and because of his ability and leadership, he was able to capture the minds of agents and minions who were similarly aligned, and wishing to ascend. Yet, despite his leadership, genius, and desire to ascend into the arms of The Builder, he was simply a human that was born into The World* with great gifts, and as such, this would disqualify him as a Deity...for a being must be of extra-planer origin in order to be a god.
Being a great leader did not make him a god...yet, it made him a Hero of Order.
Quote Posted by BrokenArts
But Garrett does serve the Keepers from time to time, whether he wants to or not. He only thinks he's alone, yet someone keeps pulling him back, no matter how hard he tries to go at it alone.
Garrett reluctantly, yet ultimately serves the greater Balance. Although he is in perpetual conflict with his ego and true self, he ultimately surrenders to the power of Balance...for the sake of The World*.
This is why he is a Hero (Anti-Hero) of Balance...and also a Secret Hero (Anti-Hero) of The World*.
* "The World" is a term I use to denote the nameless world that "The City" resides on. It seems appropriate and congruent with nameless name of "The City"...and so I use it...:)
Vae on 16/8/2012 at 04:18
That's beautiful...:D
