Jah on 29/5/2009 at 16:21
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The high loot objectives encourage more exploration though, or at least they should do.
Having loot objectives in percentages is still silly - how is Garrett supposed to know in advance what the total amount of available loot is?
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Have you played The Tears of St Lucia FM for TDM? There is a set of hidden arrows that require some real exploration to get to and I love that kind of design.
Having some well-hidden stuff as a bonus for those who want to explore everything and find each and every loot item is great and I'm all for that. Making finding that kind of stuff a mandatory requirement is not so good, IMO. Like SlyFoxx, I'm not particularly keen on scouring the entire playing area and turning every last stone to find that missing 5 gp after all other objectives have been fulfilled and I'm ready to leave. Unless Garrett has some particular thing he absolutely needs X gold for, I doubt he'd hang around for another hour and risk getting caught for the price of one broadhead arrow.
SLIEZER on 29/5/2009 at 16:50
Quote Posted by Brian The Dog
Hmm, not sure about making it harder. I understand why you'd think that, but the original missions were called "Normal, Hard, Expert" for a reason. I'd just be a bit wary of scaring off new people by forcing them to be good at the game. The first time I played Thief, I had big difficulties getting through Normal. I'm currently replaying Thief, and despite playing lots of Fan Missions over the years, on certain missions I've had to look at Walkthroughs (mainly since I get lost easily, so things like The Lost City or the Bonehoard are really bad for me!).
One of the great things about Thief is the open-endedness of the gameplay, which comes via the level design. Players can then choose their own custom difficulty setting. For instance, I love watching guard patrols, working out optimal ways to blackjack my way through an area, and so on. With the level design, I can do this. Some people love ghosting. They too can do this. So people have come up with all sorts of unofficial difficulty settings (Lytha, Ghost, 100% loot, Iron-Man, etc) which they can set themselves and their friends. It's noticeable that even in Fan Missions, the difficulty settings don't insist on 100% loot or Ghosting, except in a few cases. Such "forced" difficulty settings actually limit the gameplay, not expand it.
I never mentioned any gameplay changes, just a few easter eggs or anything minor, like a guard conversation or something to strive for. And it might be very scarce, but just something, like a hidden note or such. Like the hammerite conversation at Gervai (whatever his name was) mansion, which you could only reach by being very fast.
TheGrimSmile on 29/5/2009 at 19:57
Quote Posted by SLIEZER
I never mentioned any gameplay changes, just a few easter eggs or anything minor, like a guard conversation or something to strive for. And it might be very scarce, but just something, like a hidden note or such. Like the hammerite conversation at Gervai (whatever his name was) mansion, which you could only reach by being very fast.
It's a nice idea, but to tell the truth, I would feel terribly left out.
Shame on me, but I never go beyond normal difficulty. However, I play Thief maily for the conversations, and I love just to hear them. I would hate to miss out on a good one because I couldn't make it through a level on a harder difficulty.
I know I'm being selfish here, but... just a call from one who come from a lower difficulty.
Tail on 29/5/2009 at 22:25
Personally, I felt the loot requirement was well-balanced in the originals (and even easier with, irk, loot glint) and a quick search of each room was usually sufficient. But you'd only get it all if you were determined (and the designers hadn't misplaced any). ;)
I wouldn't want to see it gone because I like using it as a vague guide to how much level I've explored, and how big the place is. If it was always optional, I guess that wouldn't be too bad.
TheGrimSmile,
Playing on normal has always meant missing out on some extra story elements and even parts of levels. Such as the evidence on Constantine or the special loot in the Bonehoard, etc. I'm not saying it's right, but it should encourage a replay, at least. :)
TTK12G3 on 29/5/2009 at 23:39
Quote Posted by Jah
Having loot objectives in percentages is still silly - how is Garrett supposed to know in advance what the total amount of available loot is?
Magic.
TheGrimSmile on 30/5/2009 at 00:35
Quote Posted by Tail
TheGrimSmile,
Playing on normal has always meant missing out on some extra story elements and even parts of levels. Such as the evidence on Constantine or the special loot in the Bonehoard, etc. I'm not saying it's right, but it should encourage a replay, at least. :)
I did notice that there are a few areas (not to mention in FMs) that I never got to go in.
I was playing the OMs today, and found them perhaps a little /too/ easy...
I still want the best conversations, though! :cheeky:
pwyll on 30/5/2009 at 03:25
I play for fun not for challenges but an Extreme difficulty would be nice for the competitive gamers. However, I prefer Normal. :)
Taffer36 on 30/5/2009 at 04:20
I don't know if the conversation's on it or not, but I hate hate HAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE "dynamic" difficulties. Nothing about it works for me, sorry.
Difficulties should be: Novice, Normal (can't think of something clever :(... professional?), Veteran. There should then be medals or trophies or something that you can win on each mission for select things, like no fires extinguished, no enemies killed, and ghosting.
Somebody, somewhere, a while back said that there shouldn't be an easy difficulty to help beginners. It was just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Beleg Cúthalion on 30/5/2009 at 07:50
Quote Posted by Jah
Having loot objectives in percentages is still silly - how is Garrett supposed to know in advance what the total amount of available loot is?
And knowing that I will get 5000 loot in some building isn't...? Balance, man.
However, the shape of percentages looks too modern for me, that's true.
Jah on 30/5/2009 at 11:56
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
And knowing that I will get 5000 loot in some building isn't...?
If the building is a noble mansion, a bank, a museum or somesuch that is known to contain lots of valuables, it's a reasonable assumption. I'm sure Garrett would have a rough idea of how much he can expect to find before choosing his target. He just wouldn't know that the total loot is exactly 5639 gold.
