Lumpy on 27/8/2006 at 17:41
I haven't got Thief 3 yet, but I'm really curious how the game ends. According to Wikipedia, all the Keepers die, but I've heard other versions as well. What really happens?
Holywhippet on 28/8/2006 at 04:32
The short version is this: ages ago a Keeper called Gamall along with some fellow Keepers discovered a glyph which the ancient Keepers had sealed away. The glyph allowed the wielder to change their form. Gamall pledged to hide it away like the others but she had no intention of doing so. Instead she claimed it in secret and began seeking out other hidden glyphs which she used to extend her life.
Gamall remained with the Keepers but did so in secret - she removed all records of her existence and killed any Keepers that got too close to the truth. The one fear she had was of a glyph called the final glyph. This was a failsafe left behind by the first Keepers. It could only be activated by placing 5 sentients (crown, heart, eye, paw and chalice) at certain historical locations around the city.
Garrett did so and this activated the final glyph. This led to the start of an era the Keepers call the unwritten times. This name can have a number of meanings because the main use of the final glyph is to nullify all glyph magic. That means that Gamall can no longer use any of her powers. However, it also means that all of the Keeper's writings which were written in glyphs turn into blank paper. They have no prophecies which cover anything that happens after the start of this time and they cannot make use of glypg magic anymore. To top it off, the Keeper's stronghold had always been "hidden" using glyph magic that stopped anyone from noticing it was there. This led to the common people being able to see the place and, most likely, them looting it.
Garrett was left with a mark on his hand in the shape of a key. Presumably it is part of the final glyph's power - whether glyph magic will return later on is unknown.
The Keepers themselves are most likely still alive (some were killed or injured in a fight against Gamall earlier) as they confront the powerless Gamall after the final glyph is activated. They are without their glyph powers though, most likely they will be forced to disband.
june gloom on 2/9/2006 at 03:06
here's my impression:
the keepers' primary mission is preserving balance. that's why, 50 years prior (i think it's safe to establish it as 50 years) the keepers near the hammer cathedral were willing to unveil themselves to help contain the zombie rampage- which thusly prevented the balance from tipping into the favour of chaos/nature/the undead/the eye/whathaveyou. they likely knew what the eye was for, which is probably why instead of going in and getting it for themselves to hide away somewhere (they knew that likely wouldn't work) they sealed it up for when it was needed. we know it's possible to get into the cathedral by ways other than the front door, but they sealed up the front entrance because that's otherwise the easiest way in- not to mention it is from that front door that the worst of the zombie rampage had spilled.
balance had been mostly kept since then- the hammers occasionally had control of the government by way of the baron, but then he'd die and a new baron who doesn't put as much stock in spiritual matters would come along and the hammers would lose power for a while. then along came constantine/the trickster. alone, he likely wouldn't have been able to do much- maybe stage an attack, but unless he could do the ritual that required the eye his minions would be fought back. by his hiring of garrett, who is intrinsically linked to the prophecies though he doesn't like to admit it, he set in motion a shift in the balance that would tip the odds in his favour- and that tipping would only be replaced by an extreme tip in the opposite direction with the advent of karras and the mechanists. to put it simply:
take a scale, one of those old balancing scales. put small stones on each one, one after the other, until both are holding several stones in equal numbers. now put a big stone on one- and everything tips in that direction. now move that stone to the other plate and watch everything tip in -that- direction.
the keepers were meant to be a completely neutral party, to keep one side from overpowering the other. but the problem is they suffered corruption from within. they've dissolved into bickering and arguing over interpretations of the glyphs, then something happens and they all say they predicted it. in the end, their usefulness was waning and their time has passed- the city was capable of keeping itself balanced without the keepers' help. and, really, they were corrupt from the beginning, as one of their own, one of the founders of the keepers, had fallen into the trap of the glyphs.
so- the meaning behind the keyhole (keepers) and the key (garrett)? garrett's ultimate purpouse was to bring about the end of the keepers- though neither garrett nor the keepers knew it. the keepers would not have been able to maintain balance in either of the scenarios presented in the first two games- while they were good at what they did, they weren't good enough. (keeper artemus might've been once, but he's getting along in years and therefore is not up to the task. besides, he's not the one the prophecies speak of.) they needed a hero, and guess who fit the bill? garrett. it's no coincidence that he spotted artemus in the streets as a kid- he was meant to. if he didn't have the abilities that he does, he probably never would've seen artemus. garrett's final task was to destroy the corruption in the keepers- but since the corruption began at the roots, it also meant the end of the keepers.
this post ended up being a lot longer than i'd intended. :erm:
Garriath on 17/9/2006 at 04:23
I realize this thread is fairly old, but it's worth reviving, methinks.
I'm assuming that since the thread hasn't been covered in spoiler tags, there's no need to start.
I've just finished T:DS for the first time, and the ending rather confuses me. Having a minor hearing problem and having multiple plot characters (Garrett, Gamall, and the Eye) speaking at once didn't help. So here're a few questions, for answer or debate:
Did Gamall kill Artemus? I didn't fully hear all she said while she killed orland. It seems that way now, seeing as he didn't appear in the final clip, but it seems like a rather low-key send-off for the man who was probably the 2nd most important man to the series, next to Garrett himself.
Also, if the keepers have finished, what is the point of Garrett telling the girl at the very end that he's a keeper? I gathered that when he said it, he was speaking to himself quite a bit more than to her, but what are keepers without glyphs? Is Garrett pledging to begin recording the city's goings-on without the help of the glyphs?
Also, a final (not-so-serious) comment: If, after the event, the Hammers find the Chalice returned, and the Pagans the Jacknall's paw, shouldn't Garrett get his eye back? :p
Thanks,
Garriath
Poison Ivy on 17/9/2006 at 16:58
Yes, Artemus is dead.:( I think it happened sometime after Gamall's Lair. I think he was still himself when he spoke to Garrett, and also still himself when he talked to the Keepers afterwards, but that he was ambushed by the Hag after that. Such a pity...:(
The incident with the girl was a mirror image of the scene at the beginning of The Dark Project. :) Theoretically, the girl will become Garrett's apprentice now. :D
And I don't think Garrett is pledging to do anything. In any case, not more than he was doing already - going about his own business and doing something whenever things get too dramatic. :D
As for the Glyphs, I think their power will return eventually. The point of the Final Glyph was to give the Keepers a chance to start anew, not erase them completely from the face of the Earth.
Personally, I think some of the former Keepers will survive and learn to live without glyphs, so that by the time Glyphs come back, the Keepers will no longer be so helpless and dependant on them.
As for your last, why should Garrett get his eye back? The Eye has got his eye and that's the last of it. :D
jtr7 on 18/9/2006 at 00:51
If Lumpy can view it, here's a link to the final cutscene on youtube:
(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW-CEfKNd0c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW-CEfKNd0c
Here's the transcript:Final Cutscene -
(As the Statues close in, Garrett slams the Eye into place, grunting as his hand is stuck clutching the Eye, and the back of his hand glows red. Suddenly, a bright blue light shoots up from the fountain. Pull back to encompass the whole City as blue light fills the streets, forming the shape of the Final Glyph. A burst of power issues from the fountain, and we go back to Garrett. The red glow fades, revealing the mark of a key on the back of his hand, as though branded on. The Statues stop moving.)
Garrett - If I never see another glyph again, it'll be too soon.
(Garrett stands and walks off, snapping the finger off a frozen statue as he does. The glyph on the forehead of the statue fades away. The camera now focuses on a hunched figure in the background. The figure, Gamall, begins to trace a glyph in the air and sobs.)
Gamall - *sob* Back! Back with you!
(Dark, cloaked, whispering figures advance on Gamall, completely reverted to her human form.)
Gamall - Old... so old... all ruined...
(The glyph Gamall is tracing dissipates uselessly. A closeup of her face as she continues to sob.)
(Cut to a group of people standing outside the Keeper Compound. Their voices overlap.)
Man: Hey! Did you see that? Never noticed that before. How could a building just...
Old Woman: ...built by goblins at the stroke of midnight...
Man: ...does that look like gold to you, there? Hurry, before someone else...
Woman: ...someone at the window!
(Cut to inside a darkened Keeper Library. A lone figure sits on the floor in front of a book, lazily turning pages.)
Keeper: They're all gone... What will we do? What will become of The City without us?
(Cut to Garrett standing on a rooftop, looking over the City. He grimaces as the first rays of dawn creep over the horizon and departs.)
(Cut to a shot of a stained glass window bearing the Hammer. A pan down reveals the Chalice.)
Hammer (from off-screen): The Builder has returned his Chalice to us!
(Cut to a shot of a gnarled tree with a Wisp floating around it.)
Pagan (from off-screen): Them Jacknall's Paw! It be comesy back to us!
(Cut to the street at night-time. Garrett walks along the street in silhouette. He stops and casts his eyes behind him as a shadowy figure appears behind him. A whoosh and a blur show fast movement.)
Girl: Let go of me!
(Garrett holds his purse in one hand and has the girl held above the ground in his other.)
Garrett: That's not for you.
(Closeup of the girl's face, eyes filled with misery.)
Girl: Please, sir. I'm hungry.
(Shot of the girl's held hand, panning down to Garrett's hand, scarred with the key symbol.)
Garrett: You have talent. It's no easy thing to... see a Keeper.
(Shot of Garrett's face.)
Garrett: Especially one who does not wish to be seen...
(Garrett smirks.)
Lumpy on 18/9/2006 at 09:56
Great, thanks a lot.
Holywhippet on 20/9/2006 at 04:33
Quote Posted by Poison Ivy
And I don't think Garrett is pledging to do anything. In any case, not more than he was doing already - going about his own business and doing something whenever things get too dramatic. :D
As for the Glyphs, I think their power will return eventually. The point of the Final Glyph was to give the Keepers a chance to start anew, not erase them completely from the face of the Earth.
Personally, I think some of the former Keepers will survive and learn to live without glyphs, so that by the time Glyphs come back, the Keepers will no longer be so helpless and dependant on them.
My thought was that the original Keepers could see far enough into the future to know what was going to happen eventually. They foresaw Gamall, Garrett etc and knew they needed a way to stop things when that happened. The final gylph was their solution - it would cancel all the glyph magic in the city. They knew Garrett would not be interested in reforming the Keeper order unless absolutely forced to - presuming he can since he has that key symbol on his hand now.
The Keepers won't be able to reform on their own. They were far too dependant on their glyph magic and cannot exist without them. For them this is now the "unwritten times" - a period which their books never covered simply because the early Keepers did not want them to interfere anymore.
Poison Ivy on 20/9/2006 at 15:38
Quote Posted by jtr7
(Cut to inside a darkened Keeper Library. A lone figure sits on the floor in front of a book, lazily turning pages.)
Keeper: They're all gone... What will we do? What will become of The City without us?
One thing to add.... The lone figure is surrounded by books, some of them open and showing
blank pages. :D
Garriath on 20/9/2006 at 20:45
Which would explain his words; the glyphs are gone.
I only just realized that Garrett gets the key symbol on his hand, while the symbol of the keepers is the keyhole.
