TheivingME on 12/8/2009 at 11:01

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I think it is because thieving is romantacised in Thief. It is not the work of some lowlife thug or robber, and it is not, as was said a crime of passion like murder.

The difference between being a thief and a robber (in this universe atleast) is the Thief breaks into these buildings without anyone knowing he was there until the next morning. It is more of an artform than a crime.

Think about how the first missions opens up, with Garret explaining baffords, how much of a project it seems, how he knows the chief guard and the lord is out, how he hopes there will be another way in, how you are drawn into the mindset of a charachter who has dedicated a significant portion of his time to drawing up this plot for breaking into a building, yet ofcourse you control him and dont know whats coming, so you are bought along for the ride and feel artistic for being able to slip past someone undetected.



me to

Wormrat on 12/8/2009 at 14:28

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I've never felt like the stealing in Thief is really stealing, because you're in a world where no one but Garrett cares about the loot lying around. It feels more like Mario collecting coins than a real act of theft.

For me, the only thing that creates that feeling of "nicking their stuff" is when you have a scenario in which the people know someone is trying to grab their goods, are keeping an eye on everything, but you still get in and take it from under their noses. A heist-like scenario, if you will.

Ghosting can come close to this feeling (and so does tiptoeing around sleeping AIs, to a lesser extent). Sneaky ways of bypassing security systems (e.g. secret entrances, rope arrows, not just turning them off or inputting a code) are good, too. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to see more subversion. One of the best examples I can think of is the OM "Framed!"--not because of the knockout restrictions, but because of the whole idea of taking someone's personal effects and placing them in a vault to implicate them, with no one being the wiser.

Overall, it seems to me that the games are much more about well-planned, well-executed infiltration than acts of theft.

infinity on 12/8/2009 at 15:03

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I agree with Thievery being romanticized. Since I've played Thief, I've taken on different definitions of taking other peoples stuff. The classic example is the distinction of the word Thievery, as opposed to Robbery, or Burglary, or even Larceny. Those words are just uglier than Thievery. They imply some use of imperfect force, and incompetent desperation. Whenever I hear the word Thief, in a context that uses violence or anything blatant (like a bank robbery) I feel that the word is being misused. Thievery is complex art, perfection, something better than violence.

But we all remember what the devs said: how they were worried about the idea of stealing from people, and that's why we got more monsters and non-human bad guys in TDP, but when they realized they could go forward with confidence, TMA moved slightly away from that.

massageguy on 12/8/2009 at 16:11

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Garret is a character of questionable ethics anyways. I mean, he;s not earnig an honest living anyways, is he? besides, who doesn't dream of robbing the rich and giving to the poor (ourselves)? If I could get away with such things in real life, I probably would myself (oh is that homeland security at my door?)

He's also badgered by a demi-goddess (Victoria) and then there's the guild, the all seeing all knowing eyes of this world. He's kind of hemmed in to the whole thing, choiceless really.

I havent played Thief III so I don't know the ethics there. As far as I and II though, I'd say Garret is fairly ethical anyways. He's just in a tight spot. I only wish he was more of a ladies man though (and it would make the game more interesting).

Peace out......

Beleg Cúthalion on 12/8/2009 at 19:19

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Apparently there are some people who thought the optional loot thing in Widow Moira's mansion in TDS was a bug. However, I liked how that really made you aware of what you are in fact doing.