SilverJackal on 28/12/2017 at 20:32
Here's a weird question, but maybe I am not the only one. When your mission seems lacking or feels empty, do you normally add more or create more depth? I've been fiddling around with the idea for a few days now. I just feel like something's missing. Is it normal and can it be added in as an "afterthought" even when you've completed your initial blueprints?
I ask because it's my first -actual- fan mission. I know to each their own to how a mission is built. However are there tips one is willing to share when it comes to adding more without it feeling "thrown in at the last minute" type deal?
~SilverJackal
Inline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/z1kj5WY.jpgbbb on 28/12/2017 at 21:32
I feel that way every mission. Near the end I feel like the mission is boring and wonder if I should even have it tested. It is a natural feeling. I always use stock resources and don’t do anything flashy, but players seem to enjoy them.
When you have the mission tested, your testers will make suggestions. Make sure you listen to them, making changes based on their observations will make the mission better and more playable.
My guess is your mission will be fun and will be greatly appreciated. Even the authors of great missions (and I am certainly not in that category) are usually pretty humble about their great work.
Just finish it, have it completely tested and issue it.
BBB
Ps: your missions will also get better each time you do one.
gigagooga on 28/12/2017 at 22:21
Quote Posted by SilverJackal
When your mission seems lacking or feels empty, do you normally add more or create more depth?
I have always recreated or scrapped the areas with which i've felt even the slightest unsurity with (which is possibly why i haven't released anything yet :p )
few hints on what to do when places feel empty:
- remember that lighting will change the looks of things alot
- add objects, think what might be going on in the milieu, and make it look like that
- the number of polygon faces and complexity in textures are what generates the overall complexity of the area. Brushes are there only to give the rough shape and gameplay mechanics.
- think on how the player can move in the environment. For example; there is the city street, in which the player is expected to move around normally, but if you can create the sort of cracks and crevices within that city street where player can go, it will create a sense of intrest of the surroundings (..i have no idea how to explain this clearly :p )
- Ambient sounds are a good way to make place feel less empty. a correctly made sound scheme for the place will work wonders.
- a good way to make place look intresting, is to offer something never seen before. Stock resources, like textures, work against that. (stock resourse missions are a chapter of their own i know..)
- practice and practice... with experience and experience...
- Also something i've learned about the visuals over time.. when you use light_bright and you manage to make something look good, then you can be sure it will look good without the light_bright aswell. (but this might only apply to my way of making things)
Melan on 28/12/2017 at 22:44
That's all solid advice.
Lighting, especially makes a hell of a difference. Flat, middle-strength lighting that covers a whole scene evenly brings attention to the low-poly engine and especially to regular, cubical builds. Things don't look properly three-dimensional. Looking at (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118907&page=159&p=2380495#post2380495) your previous screenshots, this looks like a problem you have in your mission. Dramatic lighting which creates stark contrasts divides scenes (and introduces interesting gameplay dilemmas).
This also works with
sound. Place sound spots which draw the player to them, or which fade as they move away. Sound can make things more 3d.
You may also try
dividing up things physically. You have rooms which are too large:
Inline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/90G17nF.jpg Inline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/pF9yS2Q.jpgTry breaking up things a little. Add support columns. A line of arches in the second shot to turn one room into a double complex. The trim is a good start, but evenly placed columns help. Read the (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112019) Breaking the Cube tutorial (Unfortunately, the images are no longer there).
WRT the city in your OP. Too many similarly coloured roofs, too many similarly textured fronts. A row of windows to the right that's too long. Break it up with towers, columns, chimneys, different textures and shapes, objects, and all kinds of odd touches which makes things irregular. The shots here are a good start.
(There is also a phase in the building process where things are "not there yet". That's when things suck the worst. Keep chipping away at it and it will improve. Your work has good fundamentals. With a few strategic changes, it can shine.)
SilverJackal on 28/12/2017 at 23:02
Lighting isn't a problem and I am only in my skeleton phase. I think ahead. Way too ahead sometimes for my own good.
Inline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/psVcsJ7.jpgMaybe I'm giving away a secret area by sharing this too, but I get the major construction out of the way first. Then add finer details down the line such as:
Inline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/gbiYNON.jpgI was just sitting down, looking at my objectives. I already have a small city area I am still crafting into, but my concern I think about is the length of the mission. I haven't carved into a LOT of this mission yet. I still have a lot of work ahead of me.
Inline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/ZTPiMiF.jpgInline Image:
https://i.imgur.com/IMm0Aef.jpg~SilverJackal
P.S. This is Thief Gold. Not Thief II. Adding certain architectures to the City it being not exactly the Metal Age wouldn't make sense IMO.
Daraan on 28/12/2017 at 23:39
I kinda find some points in your screenshots I also have (building my first mission as well).
So this might be more a list for myself as for you ;)
•Texture variety and substance. You said you're making it for thief gold but also for the contest?
If it's the later your not allowed to add new ones but maybe try to build your own. Add a solid brush with wood texture, let it stick out a bit and the whole building will look different. Same goes for every other even if it might be random.
Add some stone/wood/stuc trims to the bottom of the buildings, maybe to the windows too.
•My city is as flat as yours. How about elevating parts of it, at some slopes and stairs. A flat big pyramid and a metal grid and you get a cool drainage into your big flat open spaces.
Same goes for the inside of buildings simple divide long flat paths with a small step.
Breaking the cube is really a nice little guide.
SilverJackal on 28/12/2017 at 23:51
Rope Arrows are to be in this mission, so it's not a big deal. Sewage System is also there. What you can't see is what the mission and getting to the tower hasn't been planted yet. There was a screw up in my notes and I had to rearrange a few things. Not everything is exactly textured to what I wanted yet. I just have a mindset of getting a better idea of what area is what.
And as for the Thief Anniversary. I'm unsure if I will be adding it to the contest. It's not contest material I don't think.
(
https://imgur.com/a/xcFT0)
Melan on 29/12/2017 at 09:06
There is nothing wrong with that Keeper screenshot (except minor texture alignment issues). If the rest of the mission will follow that level of detail, you've got something good on your hands. A few things:
* Height variations in your city section would help. Don't have to overdo it, but try adding some overlapping pyramids, corner-apex pyramids and wedges with a height of 1-6 and see how much it changes things. Maybe some dirt piles in the corners to break up the cobbles (the grassy areas are good!).
* Try narrowing down the streets a little with side buildings, towers, walled yards and such. If you want something in the Thief 1 style, use more overhanging structures (I see you already do, but there is always room for more).
* Use a few more trim textures. Those tend to spice up plain construction significantly, and create memorable landmarks for your players. Likewise, machinery, a small marketplace, a well, drainage, a saint's statue or an abandoned cart... just build.
* And things will look much better with final light in place (which is why I do this early on, and iterate a lot with light placement/radius - but your mileage may vary).
But all in all, if you are still in an early "rough cut" phase, there is no need to panic. It is a draft, and the details will fall into their place later.
john9818a on 29/12/2017 at 19:42
I would like to suggest that adjacent textures be the same. Most players might not notice or care, but it looks more realistic if for example in the last screenshot the ceiling in the hallway is one type of stone whereas the adjacent part just outside the hallway is another. I see the same with the fourth from the bottom screenshot & the bases of the columns. Also I typically don't use stone as a ceiling texture because its not feasible to do so in RL unless there is some sort of structure to make it look possible.
