The future of the Keepers

Chewbubba on 18/3/2007 at 04:06

I just finished TDS and will begin writing the last entry for Garrett's Xanga Journal.

I have a question, and I'm sure you guys have discussed this ad nauseum before, but please indulge me.

[SPOILER]At the end, after the Keepers took Old-Woman-Gamall, where did they go? Did they leave, since they couldn't use the glyphs anymore?[/SPOILER]

Also, [SPOILER]do you think Garrett intended to setup a new Keeper Order with the street kid he grabs at the end?[/SPOILER]

Thanks for your input!

Digital Nightfall on 18/3/2007 at 05:24

I am of the opinion that the clip at the end of TDS was simply fan-service, and in no way should be taken as commentary on events past or present, nor foreshadowing of intended future events.

[SPOILER]Yeah, Garrett reversing roles was neat, but that's all it was; neat. It made very little sense in the overall framework of the three-game plot arc. Why would Garrett be in that position? He turned his back on the keepers, reluctantly takes their help, is betrayed by them, fought against them, eventually destroyed them (without really meaning to), and then he becomes one? To top it off, he then takes on an apprentice? Sure, maybe there's some existential jumbo I am missing, but I am placing my bets in the "this was just fan-service" corner, and that's where they're probably going to stay.[/SPOILER]

Jashin on 18/3/2007 at 05:50

Pretty crazy theory you got there DNF, how do you figure? What/who's your source?

imperialreign on 18/3/2007 at 06:45

[SPOILER]. . . keeping in mind Garrett was 'inducted' into the Keeper order (run through the briefing and training mission in TDP), and then recieves the ability to use the Keeper Door Glyph in TDS (supposedly the first glyph an initiate recieves, correct?) . . . [/SPOILER]

that makes Garrett a member of the Keeper order, just that he's . . . defected. Kind of like . . . someone is born and baptised Catholic, and then later in life they defect from the church because they don't agree with the dogma, they're considered a heretic - but they're still Catholic because of the baptism (unless, of course, the church excommunicates them . . . but, IIRC, the Keepers never "formally" renounced any connection with Garrett; they kept in contact with him because of all the prophecies through the 3 sagas)

Although, I agree that last scene was aimed more at the long time fans than anything else

Digital Nightfall on 18/3/2007 at 07:00

Quote Posted by Jashin

Pretty crazy theory you got there DNF, how do you figure? What/who's your source?

A crazy theory? Who's my source? It's an opinion. I said so right here.

Quote Posted by Digital Nightfall

I am of the opinion that ....

And...

Quote Posted by imperialreign

. . keeping in mind Garrett was 'inducted' into the Keeper order ...

[SPOILER]If I ever chose to break away from a particular group, finding them objectionable, why would I introduce myself to a child pickpocket as being a member of that group? I'm quite sure that Garrett only said that because the developers thought it would make the Thief 1 fans happy. They may as well have broken the fourth wall, made Garrett turn to the camera and say, "Hey Thief 1 fans, you loved this game, right? See, I put in a reference to your beloved game that only you would get! Ha! That makes everything cool with us, right?".[/SPOILER]

(That's what fan service is, by the way. Something inserted that serves no purpose other than an attempt to excite or amuse the fans.)

SJamieson on 18/3/2007 at 09:57

Reading the notes during level loading for TDS it says somewhere that the post of first keper was only created to fill a void till the one true keeper arrived.

It would seem that the one true keeper was the one who kept the balance in the city and did so without using glyph magic.

In fact the plot of TDS suggests that whilst they continued to use glyph magic the keepers would Never be able to keep their own balance let alone that of the City.

Garret has never shown a dislike of the keepers purpose, merely of their methods. But now the keepers need his methods to keep the balance his role is very different and that is going to affect his relationship with the keepers probably for the better.

sbweightman on 18/3/2007 at 10:50

There are 3 major factions in the City - Hammers, Pagans and Keepers:

Thief 1 TDP: [SPOILER]You kill the Trickster, the Pagan God ie the Pagan's boss
[/SPOILER]
Thief 2 TMA: [SPOILER]You kill Karras, the Builder's Prophet ie the Mechanist boss (since Hammers turned into Mechanists)[/SPOILER]

Thief 3 DS: [SPOILER]You kill Gamall, the Keeper's boss.
[/SPOILER]

Anyone see a pattern?:eek:

Sorry im a cynic, i just see the plot of Deadly Shadows to fit in with my above theory.

Ziemanskye on 18/3/2007 at 11:56

I thought the last scene made sense narratively.

I can't class it just as fan service because I don't know the exact events in TDP it references, but we know Garrett's sense of humour and irony would certainly allow him to act/comment like that.

He was there, he knows about the old prophecy of the One True Keeper and all he's done: he'd likely refer to himself as a Keeper just because of irony of no longer being caught under their (or anyone else's) prophesies anymore - and he kept *their* balance without their magic.

As for taking an apprentice: you don't know that he does. He smiles at his private joke. For all we know he could kill the girl so she would threaten him later (unlikely, but still possible).

Dia on 18/3/2007 at 12:33

Quote Posted by Chewbubba

At the end, after the Keepers took Old-Woman-Gamall, where did they go? Did they leave, since they couldn't use the glyphs anymore?

That's something I wondered about too. I kind of figured they just disbanded the order and left town for parts unknown. Their mission was accomplished; end of story (as far as the original games are concerned: FMs are another matter entirely).

Quote:

Also, do you think Garrett intended to setup a new Keeper Order with the street kid he grabs at the end?

Definitely not. I got the distinct impression that by that time Garrett was thoroughly sick and tired of the Keepers and their repeated manipulations of him to suit their own ends. He'd left the order and had no intention of ever rejoining, so why would he want to set up a new order based on one for which he had nothing but scorn and distrust? Garrett was a loner, and as much as the idea appeals to me, it seems unlikely he would have taken the girl as an apprentice in the art of thievery, much less as an apprentice in his 'new order'. I always had the impression that Garrett was the 'I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member' type.

I agree with Digi that the last scene was a fan service. I doubt he killed the girl; he seemed to be more wryly amused (in typical Garrett-fashion), as if he was seeing himself as a kid when he looked at her. As with any story that has a rather ambiguous ending, what may or may not have followed after the cut scene is pretty much left up to the individual's imagination.

Jashin on 18/3/2007 at 15:08

Quote Posted by Digital Nightfall

Being the one true keeper is not something you confirm or deny, so why wouldn't he identify himself as the one when he talks to himself? He's the only one left, exactly like he has always been.

By your logic, if I'm invisible to everyone, including the ex-keepers, but this orphan pickpocket - why wouldn't I take her on? It's a very interesting twist and it completes the cycle of Garrett. I mean, what else is left for Garrett, the dude's invisible now, invisible men don't need to sneak around.

It could very well be fan-service, just that it makes perfect sense. If the dev had any intention to continue the story, it'd be about someone else now.