Hoopz on 18/11/2003 at 05:50
Sarik: my 'would you like to live in this place' was not a taste comment, but simply a note that the layout is exceptionally bizarre.
If you look at the map and examine the second floor you'll see it's laid out like a big circular string of rooms without any central connections (like a hallway). Getting from the gameroom to the guestroom shouldn't be a big issue, they're not far apart. But you have to go alllllllll the way around.
It just broke the whole suspension of disbelief to me to see it like this, especially because I spent quite a while looking at the map, planning my route.
Saintly on 18/11/2003 at 07:34
Missions dont necessarily have to follow a set pattern. Just because your house flows from one room to another doesnt mean Thief missions have to as well.
Have you played Christine's missions? They are fantastic because some parts of the map can only be reached if you go a certain route...even if its on the other side of a building. Half the fun is finding the various nooks and cranies where you can find a new part of the map.
Morrgan on 19/11/2003 at 21:47
Thanks for the big post, Hoopz. Certainly a lot of points to think about there.
1) Mansion layout
What you say makes sense, especially the part about the guards' quarters. However, the guards are meant to stand around and look pretty in important locations while there are guests around. They only patrol the house during the night when everyone is asleep/away, so going through the dining room isn't such a big problem.
As far as "no connecting hallways" goes, I just think they're boring. ;) I decided to go for a more fun approach from the players point of view, which lead to the believability suffering. Still need to find a nice compromise between the two...
2) 3D
Couldn't agree with you more. I hate those same acrobatics problems when I encounter them in other people's missions and will do my best to avoid them in my own.
3) Bank
Ah, that was a design error by yours truly. :angel: I basically painted myself in a corner and had to choose between rebuilding and pushing back the release even longer or just leave it as it was and try to make the best of it. Had I chosen the first option I would probably have given up on the whole thing eventually, building the mission took damn long as it was.
4) Mansion maps
Hehee, true. Í will forward that to my map-maker. ;)
5) Keys
Good point. I'll try making the keys disappear in future missions, if they only unlock one thing that won't need to be relocked (such as a chest or safe). That should help, along with designing the mission so that only few keys are needed.
6) Mechanist seminar layout
Well, I guess the same applies here as in 1). I just don't like long, boring (although logical and efficient) corridors. ;)
Again, thanks for the feedback!
Hoopz on 24/11/2003 at 02:39
By the way, I realized that I formulated my mansion layout comment a bit incorrectly, so maybe this'll make more sense:
whether or not the mansion is a good place to live in does indeed not matter much for thieving, but it is almost always related to another quality: whether or not the mansion is linear or branches a lot. I found that most mansions that felt realistic to live in were also the ones with lots of options of moving around.
If you look at the map of the top floor in your mission, it's essentially a long string of rooms that goes in a squashed circle. Each room has only 2 exits leading to one other room. The fun about mansion missions for me was finding your way around, not knowing for sure where something leads. Especially when there are tons of maps, I usually plan my route ahead, only to have to change it around completely once I'm in the mission (maps give you a false sense of confidence, I love it). As you spot a guard coming round the corner at the end of the corridor, not knowing where to hide, rushing into the first door you see.
A mansion should (IMO) be a big place with various options of moving around, and reducing it to a linear string of rooms kind of ruins the fun a bit.
Morrgan on 26/11/2003 at 04:57
Ah, I see what you mean now. Good point, thanks for the tip.
Bronze Griffin on 28/3/2005 at 09:39
I've just finished it, it's really impressive. I love the attention the detail and care that has gone into it. Quite inspiring!
Orobas on 23/12/2005 at 04:20
I have got to tell you, that has to be the nicest 4MB mission I have ever seen. I had to put my peril sensitive sunglasses on it was so great. :thumb: :thumb:
The Fire Eater on 6/1/2007 at 00:52
I have found three secrets...and I saw earlier in this thread about a coathanger. [SPOILER]Are they the ones in His Lordships bathroom area? If so, it did not highlight up for me? If that is not where it's to be found could you please give a little more direction/place to find it?[/SPOILER]
I know it's been awhile since these came out but somehow I missed getting them earlier. It has been well done, although a bit sticky in some areas...guards in the Mansion seemed to be on a higher alert basis. Such as I was up on second floor..peering through and near banister but guard was down stairs and should not have seen or heard me but realized I was there and came upstairs to search for me along with a second guard that I think might have been on the same floor as me, otherwise I don't know where he came from. I'm playing Easy as I need to use BJ in some instances and did not want to try and deal with no BJ'g on next difficulty mode which was akin to Ghosting. I'm not a Ghoster type player so that was the only reason I didn't play at Hard which mostly I do.
Other than that you did do a very nice job and will look forward to Part II, although I understand there are some undeads/zombies which I'm not a big fan of but I will play it because I do want to see the whole series. Thank you ! :)
Morrgan on 6/1/2007 at 01:30
Glad to hear this mission's still being played. Thanks for the feedback!
To reply about the secret hint by hint, the only secret I can remember involving a coathanger isn't in the mansion at all - it's in one of the apartments near the bank, more specifically in the Colsburnes' home. Is that the one you've missed?
If it's any consolation, part 2 isn't really an undead mission in the traditional sense and there isn't a single zombie (can't stand the bloody things, to be honest). I aimed more for the spooky, ghostly atmosphere. I hope you like it. :)
The Fire Eater on 6/1/2007 at 01:49
LOL, will for the first time in a long time, I actually found the darn thing after I posted and was planning on getting back here right away before anyone had a chance to answer. However, you were here first and I thank you for your fast reply :) Soon after I posted and made small .txt file of the couple of things I was interested in (answers previously posted) I went back into the game and found the Apts. referred to as to where I could find some other items. So I saved and came back here after I found the email from TTLG and your reply. Now I'll get back and see if I can get through the rest of it.
Also thanks for the headsup about part two...glad there's no "z's" or undeads but I think your other characters might be the death of me...hope not :eek: I'll probably be coming back for feedback on that one sooner or later. Thank you Morrgan :)
