Solabusca on 26/5/2009 at 22:30
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
But what's that bit about Nyarlhotep..? :weird: God or priest? Only or one of many deities? Canon? Honestly I cannot remember reading this.
jtr7 will be along shortly with the proper entry, but I'm gonna beat him to it:
Quote Posted by m9rain
Fire rains upon us from the sky. At the Temple of N'Lahotep, four hallowed geldings were offered to appease the acrimonious earth. The sanguine overture has done nothing to pacify her.
With the not-so-subtle reference to Cthulhu (the 'creepy' statue both resembles AND IS NAMED Cthulhu), it's not a stretch to see N'lahotep as Nyarlahotep.
.j.
jtr7 on 1/6/2009 at 06:05
Sola', while making comparisons between the Kurshok and Precursors--stretching the truth to the breaking point, as I do with these connect-the-dot games I play--I tossed in the idea that since the Emperor was considered divine, that maybe the last one, beloved of the people, committed the same sin as the Kurshok King, and placed himself at equal or greater status to his gods. But this was just grasping for fun.
Glad ya injected the facts into this thread, too.
Tail on 8/6/2009 at 17:40
I always thought the Precursors destroyed themselves since Karras was about to destroy all organic life with their technology in a sort of cyclical tale of destruction... Except I just remembered the gas itself was invented by Karras, damn.
Also worth noting is that the survivors of the destruction are the masks themselves and would have been again if Karras' plan succeeded. I think it was Laura who mentioned that when the servants and converted mechanists speak (not the robots), that's the mask itself speaking and commanding the body.
So, the precursors create these sentient masks who decide to destroy all organic life and thus turn on their creators. Or are worn by royalty and control them to carry out the same thing. Was Karras controlled by one? Is the Crown related to the masks?
jtr7 on 8/6/2009 at 18:03
Lots of interesting things there, Tail. :thumb: (Sorry, Stath MIA, Kurshok leads to Precursors and Precursors leads to Kurshok).
We don't know the reason for the volcanic destruction. Sounds less like Precursor technology and more like natural forces or gods. Since there's a lot of wrath of god destruction going on in The City's history, and since the Trickster really does open up the earth to swallow civilizations, the tendency is to look along those lines. There is obviously some supernatural intervention keeping Karath-Din from becoming just covered in lava and ash. As for wrath from gods, Karras believed the Builder did it.
If you could find that dev quote about the masks, we would be very grateful!:eek: Nevertheless, we have thought it's a transceiver device, controlled by Karras and others, and both the Guiding Beacon and Garrett's mech eye allow for that. On the other hand, if the masks themselves were sentient, then that would explain why the masks don't speak like the Mechanists. On the other hand, most of the masks are not Precursor masks, so Karras would have to know how to make a brass mask sentient.
I'm thinking there's a possible connection between the divine Emperor and the mask technology, and that the Emperor may have committed the same sin as Gruliac and called down the wrath of his gods.
The Crown was created by the Trickster (don't know if it was sentient yet), and given to the Kurshok king as a gift. King Gruliac swelled with pride and deemed himself better than the Trickster. The Trickster came back for the Crown, Gruliac fought him, the Trickster opened the earth and cut off the hand Gruliac was grasping the Crown with. The Kurshok fell down into the abyss along with the Crown, but the Paw somehow did not fall with them. We don't rightly know where the sentience came from, unless it is purely Keepers' souls for those two.
Tail on 8/6/2009 at 19:27
Quote Posted by jtr7
If you could find that dev quote about the masks, we would be very grateful!:eek: Nevertheless, we have thought it's a transceiver device, controlled by Karras and others, and both the Guiding Beacon and Garrett's mech eye allow for that. On the other hand, if the masks themselves were sentient, then that would explain why the masks don't speak like the Mechanists. On the other hand, most of the masks are not Precursor masks, so Karras would have to know how to make a brass mask sentient.
The quote, unfortunately, is from irc from many years ago. I have no logs anymore and I won't be able to confirm that for you. Sorry! But there's a small chance somebody else will remember.
If we make the (rather large) assumption Karras is influenced by the masks. One could assume that most of the artifact recovery from the Lost City was dedicated to finding more. And that many were being found and shipped back. The masks on the robots themselves could, of course, be simple recreations. And Precursor masks used only on the human subjects.
The guiding beacon is a bit of a hole. But could be explained with even greater speculation. ;)
I'm also not clear on whether Karras knew of the masks because of Gervaisius, or he was already seeking them so Gervaisius was of interest. It could, however, have the implication that Garrett is indirectly responsible for the whole thing (again!). :)
Edit: Furthermore, why even have masks that looked like the precursor masks in the first place, if not influenced by them?
jtr7 on 8/6/2009 at 19:36
Well, we know he was making Servants long before Gervaisius's exhibition, and that Karras was already in talks with Gervaisius weeks before that night. He'd already made many Servants in the previous months, so all that I can speculate on is that he just wanted all the Precursor masks included in his schemes, likely for holy reasons. And the one Cultivator Gervaisius had.
We are told through Vilnia--though she could have been given misinformation--that Karras can control the Servants from any location. His helmet could've been taken from the Emperor himself, and it could be a thought transmitter.:p
The appearance of the masks, I speculate, is again for Holy reasons. It fits with his idea of the Builder's plan, the Precursors squandering the gifts from the Builder, and the design may have to do with how the masks work, as glyphs' shapes are important, ritual pentagrams/septagrams and other geometric 'grams, and the direct connection to the Fire Entity Frescos found throughout Karath-Din.
Tail on 8/6/2009 at 20:45
The important time period would be if Karras was creating servants before Garrett retrieves the masks from the Lost City for Gervaisius. But, it's also possible he already owned precursor masks, or some were already in circulation and this is how Gervaisius knew they'd be in the Lost City in the first place. One could have made its way to Karras. Do we know who supplied the cultivator to Gervaisius? This again suggest Lost City artifacts already being in circulation without Garrett.
Perhaps Karras made his own adaptations to allow control through the beacon? Or it's separate to the masks themselves?
I can't actually remember the intended usages of the cultivator. It was to increase the effects of the gas, but was the intention to install one in each servant? So he'd need to recreate the original technology. Or was the one cultivator installed somewhere else?
Speculation is fun.
Stath MIA on 8/6/2009 at 21:12
Quote Posted by jtr7
(Sorry, Stath MIA, Kurshok leads to Precursors and Precursors leads to Kurshok).
Indeed, the two topics seem interconnected (at least in the minds of us taffers), I really only created this thread to allow people the opportunity of dividing their thoughts if they found combining the two unacceptable (not my position).
Anywho, on the topic of the masks, I tend to consider that they may have been designed to allow the precursors a sort-or "mass communication system" where the king and his subsidiaries could issue orders and alerts to the populace in general just by putting on a mask. This could have easily been warped by Karras to his own ends by tampering with the future servants minds and installing control circuits similar to the ones used in Watchers and bots. I'd say that the rust gas was probably created by the Precursors (maybe as an ancient weed killer :cheeky:) but was weaponized by Karras, thus the Cultivators were designed to produce the gas in large enough quantities as to actually be dangerous.
jtr7 on 8/6/2009 at 22:39
Agreed.
Gervaisius knows Sangar. We don't know who else. He knew Sangar is/was a grave robber, or something less than legitimate. The Lost City was already pretty looted by the time Garrett sees it, and it's likely that there are other areas of Karath-Din that have been discovered nearby, or far enough away to separate the Lost City section. We also don't know the extent of the Precursor empire. Gervaisius knows of the Precursors and asks for any antiquities dating back to their time, but especially masks and headdresses--which means it didn't have to be Precursor stuff, but anything from that time in history.
The Cultivator activated the rust-gas's lethal properties. The rust-gas didn't do anything without the Cultivators, or perhaps it would take a long long time for the mutox to work. Of course, the one Cultivator Gervaisius had never fell into Karras's hands.
It's likely Cavador discovered the Culitvators.
