Renault on 15/6/2018 at 02:12
I'm doubting I'll ever convince you or Judith on anything, but at least consider this. You'll arguing that the trailer's violence is gratuitous, which basically means it has no context (although for every article that claims this, I can find one that doesn't). But the trailer for the first game was same way, it didn't reveal anything about the game itself. And it seems obvious that's exactly how Naughty Dog wants it. They don't want you to know anything going in. So it's almost impossible to have context of any kind. If you've played the first game, then you know that there are multiple scenes of violence which match up equally with anything seen in this new trailer. But no one who's played the original would argue they're gratuitous because the story has given them context.
So I went back in this thread and made note of who was criticizing the violence. You (Starker), Judith, and Aja. Which also happens to be all people who haven't played the first game. So maybe ND is specifically targeting people who've played the first game. Don't get me wrong, you can definitely argue its a shitty trailer, because it doesn't explain anything. But people who played Part 1 are going to understand the context way more than people who haven't.
As far as the violent scenes being "over the top and gory," I can't really help you there because I don't agree. People getting shot, stabbed in the neck, even eviscerated, sure it's all harsh. But it's not anything that couldn't happen in real life. It's not like we're watching Kill Bill or Evil Dead or anything.
Starker on 15/6/2018 at 03:01
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not making an argument here, just voicing my opinion. And I have watched the entire first game on Youtube, for what it's worth. Also, you can add Sulphur and Malf on your list. No idea if they have played the first game, though.
Gratuitous doesn't just mean without context, it also means things like unwarranted, unjustified, uncalled for, done without a good reason. None of it seems necessary to put in a trailer like this. Especially considering the serious tone of the first game. Yes, people can get killed in real life in gruesome ways, but just because you can put something in a trailer doesn't mean you should. Some people are nudists in real life, it doesn't mean you therefore should have people walk around with their tits out in your game/trailer.
It's kind of like the "sex scenes" in the brothel in the Thief reboot -- they feel entirely like they are there just for the titillation of the player.
Sulphur on 15/6/2018 at 04:20
Quote Posted by Brethren
I'm doubting I'll ever convince you or Judith on anything, but at least consider this. You'll arguing that the trailer's violence is gratuitous, which basically means it has no context (although for every article that claims this, I can find one that doesn't). But the trailer for the first game was same way, it didn't reveal anything about the game itself. And it seems obvious that's exactly how Naughty Dog wants it. They don't want you to know anything going in. So it's almost impossible to have context of any kind. If you've played the first game, then you know that there are multiple scenes of violence which match up equally with anything seen in this new trailer. But no one who's played the original would argue they're gratuitous because the story has given them context.
So I went back in this thread and made note of who was criticizing the violence. You (Starker), Judith, and Aja. Which also happens to be all people who haven't played the first game. So maybe ND is specifically targeting people who've played the first game. Don't get me wrong, you can definitely argue its a shitty trailer, because it doesn't explain anything. But people who played Part 1 are going to understand the context way more than people who haven't.
As far as the violent scenes being "over the top and gory," I can't really help you there because I don't agree. People getting shot, stabbed in the neck, even eviscerated, sure it's all harsh. But it's not anything that couldn't happen in real life. It's not like we're watching Kill Bill or Evil Dead or anything.
Let's start with your last paragraph here. No one on this page had complained that the game is 'too violent' at the point you made your condescension known. This is your strawman. The posts from 2017... well, if you want to address that
now that's up to you.
Context is the actual problem. At this point I wouldn't even call the violence gratuitous. My original point here was that to someone who hasn't played TLoU, all this detailed gore would seem callous, there to make the game seem all edgy and grimdark - and that's exactly what happened. It's poor marketing, and it's a mistake they made the first time around, so it's disheartening having to see people misread their abilities
again when the quality is clearly there. TLoU isn't about cheap thrills, but apparently the people behind their trailers don't know that.
For reference, hilariously enough, we're both on the same side. Now, if you want to bring people over to your side of the argument, pay better attention and maybe stop insulting them next time.
Tommyph1208 on 15/6/2018 at 08:00
Quote Posted by Sulphur
TLoU isn't about cheap thrills, but apparently the people behind their trailers don't know that.
I don't think the gore is about cheap thrills at all, its about setting the tone of a harsh and unforgiving world where the few remaining humans have turned into beast and death or worse is as likely as anything... Someone mentioned the movie The Road earlier in this thread, and I compared this gameplay trailer to that movie when I was talking to somone at work about it a few days ago... Did we need all of the gore and unpleasanties of that movie? An immediate response might be "no, we did not" but I personally think it did the exact same thing... Helped convey an understandig of the world of wich the movie is set within.
Thirith on 15/6/2018 at 08:39
That's partly the point, though: the violence in the context of the entire film works very differently from a trailer that gives you mostly the violence. Trailers are - not exclusively but largely - advertising, they're there to make you want to buy something, which also means that trailers largely focused on depicting graphic violence tend to come across as, "Hey! This is violent and therefore worthy of your interest! Buy it and you'll get to do these things yourself!" I can't remember the trailers for The Road, but I'd be surprised if they had more than a handful of scenes of violence.
Judith on 15/6/2018 at 09:19
[video=youtube;94KcI0gLq1A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94KcI0gLq1A[/video]
One explosion, not a one man killed (at least not shown directly on screen), intense action scenes only toward the end of the trailer (2:10, the trailer is 2:20 without final captions). And even though it doesn't represent the final movie (in the comments you can see stuff like "don't let that trailer fool you, the movie is very slow-paced & grimm"), it's done 10 times more tasteful and mature way than anything TLoU2-related so far. That's 1 for movie industry grown-ups and 0 for videogame industry manchildren.
Sulphur on 15/6/2018 at 09:23
You know, we get it already, and we've agreed to a degree already, so there's no need to keep at it and see if that dead horse turns into shoe leather.
On a different note - while tasteful, that traditional Hollywood buildup in the trailer is directly at odds with the movie's thematic goals, so it serves as another good example of how a standard marketing formula can't fit every source.
Starker on 15/6/2018 at 10:40
Yeah, the Road trailer is terrible, albeit for different reasons. Not really a good example on how to do things.
Tommyph1208 on 15/6/2018 at 12:54
I agree on your points Thirith, wasn't really thinking about the trailer but the movie itself. when making my initial comment.... So just to get this straight: people are totally ok with the game being potentially very gritty and gory, just don't show it in the trailer which is indirectly saying, "don't sell it on those points", or at least "those points alone"... I guess it makes kinda sense... I still don't really mind the way the trailer is put together though.
About the "Ellie will be the only playable character" I think thats interesting... I enjoyed the gameplay of the DLC Left Behind (in which Ellie is also the only playable character) alot, and can only hope for some more of that.
When it comes to all the shooting and fighting and stabbing etc. it dosn't really matter which character I play, since focus in those sections typically aren't really about the characters anyways.
Regardless, I am confident ND can deliver solid piece of nerve wrecking story telling with tlou2 just as they did with the first game... I'll probably be shitting my pants all the way through though.