Pemptus on 12/4/2012 at 12:13
Quote Posted by Thirith
I haven't yet received any update after pre-ordering the game and paying via Amazon Payments. Will have to get in touch with the devs.
You should've recieved an email from the Humble Bundle store (the Grimrock fellas use their "engine" I suppose) right after preordering - the stand-alone installer and the Steam key should be under that link now. I forgot about this email completely, so that might be your problem as well. :)
I used Paypal though, so I dunno.
Malf on 12/4/2012 at 12:18
Sorry, was out of the office. Basically, wot Thirith said. Unless they really work at it (like Looking Glass with the Thief games and Rare with Goldeneye), different difficulty options are usually quite slap-dash. The worst example of this I've played recently has been Dungeon Siege 3, where all they've done is increase the damage and hitpoints of enemies. The level scaling amplifies this and is another quick and dirty way to increase difficulty. So yeah, I'm always slightly dubious of different difficulty levels these days.
Renzatic on 12/4/2012 at 17:34
Quote Posted by Malf
No...potions that require ingredients
How far have you gotten into it? I'm close to 4 hours in, and I've already found a few simple recipes, and one that requires at least three ingredients.
Stitch on 12/4/2012 at 18:15
I think Malf is saying the opposite, that he doesn't like that potions do require ingredients (I'm pretty sure they didn't in Dungeon Master).
Playing this game is a bit of a trip, and it's great to see that this style of gameplay has aged well. I do think that Dungeon Master handled some stuff better--its magic system better rewarded experimentation as you didn't necessarily need skills selected off a tree as prerequisites--but for the most part this game is a fantastic update to the genre.
Plus, a good and proper dungeon slog does something to me. There is just something appealing about being trapped underground with tons of rock weighing down upon you from above, with no way out but down and deeper and through the unknown. Starting from scratch and fighting for your existence by scavenging whatever items you can from your surroundings, each found weapon or spell opening up new heard-earned possibilities, each foraged scrap of food granting the ability to survive for another day.
You don't need a 2.5D environment to capture this sort of thing, but few games these days even try.
Malf on 12/4/2012 at 19:59
Quote Posted by Stitch
I think Malf is saying the opposite, that he doesn't like that potions
do require ingredients (I'm pretty sure they didn't in Dungeon Master).
^This.
DM gave you enough potion bottles to experiment with, allowing you to create fireball potions, venom potions and all manner of healing and protection potions. It was another great way of having spells in reserve.
I'm really beginning to resent how the magic system promotes specialisation. As Stitch mentioned, the fun in DM's magic system was in exploring possibilities and being able to choose from a massive repertoire of spells, choosing whichever one suited the situation best. In addition, I'm really missing power levels for spells. Being able to determine the power of a spell by the first rune used allowed for greater flexibility. In Grimrock, magic seems to also lack a logical structure. I knew what each of the runes meant in DM, and that meant I could usually guess a spell by choosing the right components. Here I'm having to wait until I've acquired scrolls telling me which combos do what.
Of course, I suppose all of this promotes an all-mage team run through, with characters specialising in the schools.
Don't get me wrong though; this is still me comparing Grimrock to one of my favourite ever games, so it's bound to take a pounding in some areas, but that doesn't mean to say I don't love the game. Quite the contrary :)
Jason Moyer on 12/4/2012 at 20:39
The manual tells you what all the runes mean, fwiw.
Stitch on 12/4/2012 at 21:30
I have yet to determine if Grimrock's spell combos make any more or less "sense" than DM's, but Grimrock does take an entirely different approach to character development.
Grimrock centers around a far more game-y system of abilities that are unlocked due to decisions made during the character creation and level up process. Example: you can't cast the spell Sausage Party until you have X many points invested in the Fabulous school. Attacking with an eggbeater will be far more effective with multiple ranks allotted to the Eggbeater skill. And so on.
Dungeon Master was all about experimentation. If your weakling neophyte stumbled upon the Sausage Party spell while faffing about the Hall of Champions, with a bit of practice and down-scaling he would at least manage something, even if it was only the summoning of an Abercrombie and Fitch calendar. Likewise, a little weefle warrior might not have initially accomplished much with that eggbeater he just picked up next to his first screamer kill, but if he used it enough he'd slowly but surely start to develop some serious skill in Eggbeater.
I do like some aspects of Grimrock's system--such as the fact that "unlocking" abilities and bonuses grant clear and tangible rewards to leveling up--but I miss the general fun of fucking around that Dungeon Master provided.
Melan on 12/4/2012 at 21:34
So I got to play a few hours tonight, got down to level three and cleaned out most of the levels above me, and it's just what I expected - a simple 2.5 dungeoneer game with great modern graphics and oodles of atmosphere (nice sound effects and boy, does that light look great dancing on the walls). I went with the graph paper option for the added challenge, and so far, it's worked out well. :D Some tough situations down there.
One small quibble is that the dungeons seem a bit linear - there are side-branches but if you go down one path, you are bound to find either a key or a closed door for which you need the key. Maybe it will branch out a bit a few levels down, though.
Malf on 12/4/2012 at 21:46
Melan, don't worry about it branching out. That's another way it copies Dungeon Master. A couple more levels down and you'll come across a level that is a central hub for several puzzle rooms in almost an identical fashion to the way it happened in DM.
Melan on 12/4/2012 at 21:50
Okay, that sounds pretty good. :D
