Briareos H on 12/5/2012 at 09:12
I don't think discussing forums layout will be of much use until a new admin is appointed. Mara alone cannot at the same time federate moderators and be required to have a vision of TTLG's future.
That might also give an opportunity to get rid of the slowness problems and hopefully the silly Windows Server hosting too.
Scots Taffer on 12/5/2012 at 10:14
I'd be more comfortable with no attacks against someone who's done more for these forums than pretty much anybody else, thanks. No matter how light on they may be.
Dia on 12/5/2012 at 11:30
Quote Posted by Avalon
Yet the core that's stuck to TTLG like a disgusting tumor, the core that influences what goes on here by being the loudest voice in the room, not only hates gaming - most of you have grown to hate the very games that got you here.
I've been dismayed by that fact more than a few times. Sad that it somehow became edgy & cool to disdain the very reason this site was created in the first place. I never understood the animosity towards the Thief forums. Never made any sense to me.
Quote Posted by Avalon
So we have an entire community being lead by people who don't really have any passion or desire to build on what we're here for.
...... It's not just a matter of handing the reigns off to one such passionate individual. When that individual is still being surrounded by a very vocal, very vast majority who make it their job to at best ignore, but at worst tear down the foundation of this website, it would be a purely uphill battle to get anywhere. Hell if I know how
that gets fixed.
I think you just pretty much nailed it. When I visit the more active game forums of this site I'm seriously glad to see the enthusiasm and interest still generated for and by those games. I'm not saying other forums like ComChat should be closed down since they don't have anything to do with gaming, just make them more accessible to everyone. In essence, cut out the 'us against them' attitude (and vice versa, mind you). The ComChat-versus-ThiefGen shit got old pretty quickly for me.
I've recently seen a few posts in ComChat made by newer members and was pleased to note that the newbies weren't scorned, flamed, or zinged for their contributions. Which is as it should be; unless of course the new member is a total and blatant troll. I understand that it may take a little while for new members to get the gist of some of our sub-forums here, but I don't think it takes as long as some of the older members want to believe it does. The refrain of 'lurk more' is another phrase that needs to be used sparingly. (Yeah, I'm guilty of posting that, too.) I've found the other forums in the Community Center section to be helpful and informative and would dearly love to see those survive.
One thing that has turned me totally off some of the threads in different forums here, in particular GenGaming, has been the 'wars' between certain members. When I've found a thread to be of particular interest, it's irritated me no end when the thread gets derailed by a few members who disagree with each other to the point of coming to virtual blows. Take it outside, please. Diversity is necessary, but derailing an informitive and interesting thread because you vehemently disagree with another member's opinion to the point that you continue the argument relentlessly is
so counterproductive and annoying. I can easily understand how newer members would throw up their hands in disgust and just leave after trying to bump such a thread back to its original theme.
I'm sincerely hoping there are those members here who, though they don't have join-dates dating back more than five or six years ago, will be willing to take up the reins. TTLG seriously needs an infusion of new blood, which means new ideas and updates, not to mention a handing-over of those reins to get the whole thing rolling.
Pardon the paraphrase, but hell if I know how that's gonna happen, though happen it must. In my humble opinion, of course.
BrokenArts on 12/5/2012 at 13:32
Quote Posted by Dia
I've been dismayed by that fact more than a few times. Sad that it somehow became edgy & cool to disdain the very reason this site was created in the first place. I never understood the animosity towards the Thief forums. Never made any sense to me.
Could be that they become fan boys, and froth at the mouth about Thief and speak about nothing else....sometimes. It could be a bit much at times, that still doesn't excuse that type of behavior towards them. Just point them in the right direction, and carry on. I have seen a few threads, new thief player post in here, talking about thief, and its been polite, again, they were directed elsewhere.
I think you just pretty much nailed it. When I visit the more active game forums of this site I'm seriously glad to see the enthusiasm and interest still generated for and by those games. I'm not saying other forums like ComChat should be closed down since they don't have anything to do with gaming, just make them more accessible to everyone. In essence, cut out the 'us against them' attitude (and vice versa, mind you). The ComChat-versus-ThiefGen shit got old pretty quickly for me.
Quote Posted by Dia
One thing that has turned me totally off some of the threads in different forums here, in particular GenGaming, has been the 'wars' between certain members. When I've found a thread to be of particular interest, it's irritated me no end when the thread gets derailed by a few members who disagree with each other to the point of coming to virtual blows. Take it outside, please. Diversity is necessary, but derailing an informitive and interesting thread because you vehemently disagree with another member's opinion to the point that you continue the argument relentlessly is
so counterproductive and annoying. I can easily understand how newer members would throw up their hands in disgust and just leave after trying to bump such a thread back to its original theme.
I'm sincerely hoping there are those members here who, though they don't have join-dates dating back more than five or six years ago, will be willing to take up the reins. TTLG seriously needs an infusion of new blood, which means new ideas and updates, not to mention a handing-over of those reins to get the whole thing rolling.
Pardon the paraphrase, but hell if I know how that's gonna happen, though happen it must. In my humble opinion, of course.
Decisions are you going to made, I hear soon. Nothing new there. I'm sure who ever they do get to moderate/admin will do a great job. Really when shit like that starts up, it needs to be dealt with, and it should not be allowed to continue. Debates are good, discussions everything is good, but when its counterproductive like you mentioned Dia, it serves absolutely no purpose what so ever. It brings down the forum, and drives people away. That right there has to change.
If discussions could go on without the fear of ridicule, disdain, blatant bashing, things would be better off around here. And I am not talking about Comm Chat, other sub-forums as well. There are plenty of decent threads, we know that. Its how some of them have panned out, that is leaving a bad taste in our mouths, because they have gone on for so long, and not much is done sometimes.
Al_B on 12/5/2012 at 13:53
Even without merging the forums together, the order of the forums is something that should be looked at. New people visiting the forums would probably get the impression that we're more interested in S.T.A.L.K.E.R, Bioshock, old LGS games and Fallout than the Thief series. I don't tend to visit it, but the Thief fan missions forum is one of the most active around here and it seems strange that it's relegated so far down in the list.
Briareos H on 12/5/2012 at 14:25
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
I'd be more comfortable with no attacks against someone who's done more for these forums than pretty much anybody else, thanks. No matter how light on they may be.
ok
Goldmoon Dawn on 12/5/2012 at 19:31
Quote Posted by BrokenArts
froth at the mouth about Thief and speak about nothing else....sometimes.
Guilty! :ebil:
Sadly I myself havent had a good rant in years now. Im hoping that Thief 4 changes all that, and I once again get the chance to unleash the chains.
Hanse on 12/5/2012 at 19:32
I am not qualified to comment on the state of TTLG today. It's been a good 7 or 8 years since I was any kind of regular poster, and I only occasionally check in since then. However, just from my recent observations, and comments from other active members in this thread, I offer the following:
I've seen it all. I admin-ed this place from (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24188) late 2000 until (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57477) late 2002. During that time, there was
always someone going on about how "new members are shit" and "TTLG is DOOMED". To be fair, there was, and always has been, a fair amount of elitism in Comm Chat (and if you think otherwise, you're kidding yourself).
New members typically came here to join either the Thief forums or the Shock forums. Many of them never strayed out of those forums. Some of them wanted to join Comm Chat, but would be afraid to, because honestly, it wasn't very inviting. I myself stayed in the Thief forums for a good three months at least before daring to venture into Comm Chat. Becoming a regular in Comm Chat almost always led to becoming a regular in #thief, which is where most close friendships formed. (not all, but most)
This current "TTLG forums" vs. "Facebook" nonsense reminds me very much of how people always used to complain about IRC in-jokes flooding the forums. And yet TTLG persevered.
There was drama. Oh god, was there ever drama. But I loved this place. TTLG and the life long friends I made here had a significant impact on my life. This forum has always been about what its members make of it. The only difference between then and now is that there are fewer active members. Like it or not, the internet has evolved. There are a million other ways to keep in touch with the people you care about, and most of my "best" TTLG friends I have remained in contact with over the years, or reconnected with via Facebook.
And to repeat, people came to TTLG initiallly for Thief or System Shock. General Gaming was always a vast wasteland, and now appears to be one of the most active forums. The problem with trying to get new blood in here is that someone wanting to post about --insert random new game here-- is more likely to go register at that game's official forums rather than pick TTLG.
I frequent other gaming forums (lurking more than posting) and I can tell you that TTLG is still immediately the first place that comes to mind for gamers when you say "Thief". And I imagine there will be an influx of new members when Thief 4 comes out. It will be up to all of you to welcome them or alienate them.
Sorry this is a bit of a wall of text, and as I look at it, a lot of rambling too. It's hard for me to articulate my thoughts on a place that I remember so fondly. I'm not really sure I've added anything of value to this discussion, but if there's one thing to pull out of my mad rambling I guess it's this: TTLG has changed, and I don't know if it can ever be the same place it was ten years ago... but that doesn't mean it's "doomed".
Vasquez on 12/5/2012 at 19:46
I know I'm old-fashioned, but I liked #thief a lot more than Facebook ;-/
SubJeff on 12/5/2012 at 22:26
Get with the program, grandma.
