Gambit on 22/8/2008 at 11:21

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We all know TTLG doesn´t like games that take the player by the hands.
But on the other side of the spectrum witch games were so hard that even today you have no clue about it´s basics ?

Here are some from my experience:

Sim Earth.
An entire world that evolves constantly. You must terraform it but without many clues such as how to tweak oxygen and atmosphere for a suitable living biosphere. You seriously need some basic biology/geology to even understand the basic concepts of the game (gaia system, etc)

Civilization.
A bit scary for newbies. You have so many things to handle, like technology, army, culture, terrain occupation, diplomacy... Luckily Mr. Meyer himself is there personally to explain the game. (But in a blue collar suit ! If you are making an epic game then at least make him wear a toga or some roman armor, not a company uniform!)

Sim City.
A bit easier than Sim Earth since managing a city is a more grounded thing. Yet you must know how things influence each other or you will always fail in this game. Luckily there are the advisors to help you.

TheOutrider on 22/8/2008 at 12:22

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(http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/republic-the-revolution) Republic - The Revolution has a learning curve that feels not quite unlike trying to stop a cattle stampede with your bare hands.

It took me about a week of playing for an hour or so a day until I had some grasp of what I was doing. To be fair I didn't read the manual, but that's partially due to the fact that my copy came with literally six pages of post-print addenda/errata. The basic principles are easy once you get the hang of them, but juggling all of the small organisational things the game wants you to take care of is pretty insane.

(http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/republic-the-revolution/screenshots/gameShotId,48423/) Seriously. (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/republic-the-revolution/screenshots/gameShotId,48452/) What.

Dwarf Fortress has a pretty interesting learning curve in that it's actually a lot less harsh than you might think. It's INCREDIBLY confusing at first, but the biggest hurdle you need to get over - figuring out what's what - is significantly less high than it looks.

Matthew on 22/8/2008 at 14:19

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Oh god. Yes, this. I DID read the manual and it still felt like I was swimming uphill through setting custard.

io organic industrialism on 22/8/2008 at 14:50

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Mars Matrix (arcade & dreamcast) ...

This is a shooter for experts only. Even though I can do reasonably well in most Cave games and bullet hells in general, I can barely get past level 2 in Mars matrix without losing my first credit.

Even understanding the reflect mechanic, there is still a ridiculous amount of bullets on screen, with no easy to dodge patterns. Pretty much if you aren't an expert and don't memorize this game, it's got to be impossible. Don't even get me started on level 4 and beyond :wot:

demagogue on 22/8/2008 at 15:10

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(http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/) Orbiter.

It's insane just to get into orbit and dock with a station, doubly insane to transfer from one station to another, off-the-scale insane to go to the moon, and don't even ask about getting to another planet ... oh god and their moons! "The pay-off is astronomical, though." (tm) Seriously, though, I've always felt this sim is in a category of its own.

When you actually do something right it feels so good to see your destination slowly appearing off in the distance and growing as you prepare to rendezvous ... because you know it's not a cheap video game trick. It's real orbital mechanics and you got yourself there.