bikerdude on 25/2/2013 at 00:15
Very impressive work there PD, keep up the amazing work.
Ottoj55 on 25/2/2013 at 16:37
i'm very interested in this skeleton approach and learning how to do it. a tutorial on this is a must.
PinkDot on 25/2/2013 at 19:10
Quote Posted by " LarryG"
So you are using a skeleton rig instead of the joint & limit planes approach that LGS used? Or is that just an artifact of the motion builder and the mesh AIs themselves will be the same as before?
Skeleton is necessary if you want to animate. And the first thing I'm going to finish (as it should take the least time) is to create animation tools (modifying existing motions or creating from scratch and then exporting them to the engine).
But my plan is also to replace the limit planes with a Skin modifier for exporting AI models to the engine. Skin modifier (in Max, not sure what's the equivalent in other 3d applications) allows for more precise weighting vertices to the skeleton (=joints). Using denser meshes with limit planes just would not work with LGS limit planes, as the resulting skinning is just too crude, causing many distortions.
Not sure how it will work yet. From the user point of view, I'll probably make a script, that will construct a skeleton based on the joint objects that normally come with the .3ds files and will apply Skin modifier with some default weights. Then user will need to tweak weights and then another script will ideally export everything to .BIN and .CAL file. This will be the most difficult part, I think, as it's much easier to read files than to write them. THere's a lot of stuff in the .BIN files that doesn't seem to be doing anything, but who knows - maybe engine is somehow using that information.
Quote Posted by "bikerdude"
Very impressive work there PD, keep up the amazing work.
Cheers! :)
Quote Posted by "Ottoj55"
i'm very interested in this skeleton approach and learning how to do it. a tutorial on this is a must.
You mean how to build your own skeletons in Max? It's a big topic on its own. I might do some quick tutorial on that, but I'm not a rigger myself - I learn this stuff as I go. There's a lot of tutorials out there. But I'll definitely make some videos on how to animate with these rigs. It should require relatively basic knowledge of 3ds max.
Beleg Cúthalion on 26/2/2013 at 09:32
Since everything else has been said already, the composition of that last demo shot is really nice, too. :thumb: I know I'm a notorious prick when it comes to opting for more historical-organic interpretations of material culture (i.e. clothing, armour etc.) than cheap fantasy cause-we-can stuff*, but in case you're interested in some visual aids for inspiration or ideas how to "fill out" the newly-won possibilities, I could put together some images or internet links. Thanks to your collective video of T2 character meshes I'm really glad that the annoying high middle ages styled AI is really the only exception from the general approach (which could be subtely tweaked in the way I mentioned without abandoning the original style).
* Actually I'm glad that this worked for the Witcher 2 (and the Lord of the Rings at a lesser extent). People tend to dismiss the authentic stuff as boring while IMHO the opposite is true.
PinkDot on 26/2/2013 at 21:23
@Beleg - yes, definitely I would like to use your advice on historic clothing and armours of characters. I'm going to open a thread for various sort of reference materials related to the new look of characters in Thief. This would include a general references like historic, medieval clothing and references and concept arts for particular characters from Thief. There will be definitely more details required in models and textures and that can't be just random stuff.
jtr7 on 26/2/2013 at 23:12
But of course, this world has alchemy, normal magic, mastery of magic--particularly elemental, arcane magic, plant magic, foundry magic, necromancy, natural chemical and natural magical properties and materials that are not supernatural there, and common creatures non-existent in our world and history, and has little overlap with Earth-as-we-know-it histories, and mainly in highly-condensed form, and industrial machines that do work with materials not possible in our own world, so I hope what's normal for that world is reflected as much as periods in our extremely mundane and more limited world. There are many additional durability concerns for defense and offense in clothing and armour and weaponry that do not exist in our history, where non-humans are included in combat. Erasing the inherent and intentional fantasy from a fantasy-genre world just creates continuity errors. Enrichen and highlight the arts and craft by all means, yes!
EDIT: There is also the little tapped factor of how in real life, the local flora, fauna, and geology influence motif (where the religions don't), pigments available, as well as the aforementioned durability concerns, and--where applicable--comfort, or at least, health maintenance concerns. And the Thief universe has many plants, animals, alchemical materials, and the means and arts to process them for multiple uses, as well as the minerals and ores of that world. Armouries often have specialty weapons, tools, potions, and crystals, but since the guards barely use them themselves, and the crystals are even imported from other cities, there's an inferred preciousness, and they are perhaps meant for special scenarios that even all the thievery doesn't approach. Only TMA's guards sometimes use health potions (though they are rarely allowed to by the player, so a lot of taffers never noticed or created the possibility), and only one guard ever uses crystals in the series, in-game or in a movie. Illnesses and treatments exist, feverish delirium, medicinal affects on the mind, as well as psychotropic experiences, inspiration, madness, and other consequences, which may or may not be influenced by the very real presence of the undead and trapped spirits, all feeding into art, craft, design, engineering, ergonomics, themes, etc.
Beleg Cúthalion on 27/2/2013 at 06:23
If you could please point out the general alchemy and steampunk parts of current Thief clothing and armour, aside from the very obvious Mechanists outfit maybe?
@PD, I'll see what I can do and would send you a PM then.
TheUnbeholden on 13/5/2013 at 16:31
mmmmm damn can't find the lube..
LarryG on 13/5/2013 at 16:40
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
If you could please point out the general alchemy and steampunk parts of current Thief clothing and armour, aside from the very obvious Mechanists outfit maybe?
Personally, I think it is more in the overall angularity of the low poly AIs where the the general oddness of the Thief universe comes to the fore. That's what I wouldn't want to lose in upgrading the AIs. Thief AIs should not be fully rounded and softened (not that I think that the limited set of PinkDot's shown above are too softened, just warning not to approach too close). They should be sharp and odd looking, but still oddly right in their settings. I think that is one place where T3 went wrong. The universe and its AIs became too fuzzy, soft, and rounded.
voodoo47 on 13/5/2013 at 18:33
also, the hires models make the lack of facial animations stick out like a sore thumb. just in theory, how difficult would it be to add simple mouth/talk animation?
