Muzman on 6/1/2012 at 06:13
Yeah, very much so. They're like this "cool" alternative publication that was a little bit kooky, a little bit "mondo" shock and exploitation, but the curiosity and sense of adventure almost accidentally makes them some of the best stuff around.
Even pretty dangerous mainstream journalism is still all about them and how they are or became 1000yard stare sleep-with-your-knife types. These guys, Smith and Alvi particularly, are sort of schlubby and casual about the whole thing.
Of all the horrors in the Liberia one there's one bit that kinda sticks out the most and it's because of that bit in the swamp at the start. Here's this dude, formerly the most feared and psychopathic warlord in the most violent and depraved war for hundreds of years, mass murderer, human sacrifice etc etc And he's sorry he can't carry the white guy through the swamp. He's got so much respect for the white man who'll get his feet wet with him.
That ep is just crazy shit on top of crazy shit.
demagogue on 6/1/2012 at 07:37
Doing human rights law I deal with that kind of stuff every day. You can't be squeemish if you have to document it and work out all the different laws involved and the social causes & effects on the ground. What gets me about West Africa are things like using rape as a systematic military tactic, and how they brainwash the kids. Obviously I'm not as fatalistic as some people are... These things have social causes that aren't written in stone, even if they're sometimes very entrenched.
Edit: On the topic of Surrealism, I love this comedy spoof-documentary on it -- (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrOuBZlyr2c) Surrealismo - The Trail of Salvador Dali
Koki on 6/1/2012 at 08:58
Quote Posted by dethtoll
Kolya, you have less of a sense of humour than Batman, only you're not awesome either.
A grown up man who dresses up as a bat is not awesome.
Scots Taffer on 6/1/2012 at 09:56
I can see what Kolya is getting at with Salad Fingers, I really can - Firth is clearly into sensationalism just as much as surrealism, which can muddy the waters for any sort of artistic appreciation. There is definitely a line (that is crossed in vids like "Milkman") where it's more about pure sensationalist awfulness than anything else - yes the juxtaposition of the imagery and music and the abrupt tonal shift is still well within the artistic credibility realm, but really it's just a dude killing people and fucking their corpses for shock value. By the way, I laughed at Milkman the first time I saw it but this stuff definitely leaves you with a very sleazy and discomfiting after-taste. Ultimately I'd rather see art that inspires and lifts and empowers than one that strips someone naked and feeling emotionally vulnerable - that's just a taste thing, though.
I think Salad Fingers is well put together, but I'm not sure how much of the fanbase's psychoanalysis can be credited to Firth.
Azaran on 6/1/2012 at 10:35
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
I can see what Kolya is getting at with Salad Fingers, I really can - Firth is clearly into sensationalism just as much as surrealism, which can muddy the waters for any sort of artistic appreciation. There is definitely a line (that is crossed in vids like "Milkman") where it's more about pure sensationalist awfulness than anything else - yes the juxtaposition of the imagery and music and the abrupt tonal shift is still well within the artistic credibility realm, but really it's just a dude killing people and fucking their corpses for shock value. By the way, I laughed at Milkman the first time I saw it but this stuff definitely leaves you with a very sleazy and discomfiting after-taste. Ultimately I'd rather see art that inspires and lifts and empowers than one that strips someone naked and feeling emotionally vulnerable - that's just a taste thing, though.
I think Salad Fingers is well put together, but I'm not sure how much of the fanbase's psychoanalysis can be credited to Firth.
The Milkman one (which I also found hilarious first time I saw it) was definitely for shock value (as are his (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLeviiOLh-g) Christmas and (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA-G67BSb9Y) Valentines Day shorts, which however are extremely disturbing and not really funny..) but he's on to something with his other stuff. I read once that he draws inspiration from his dreams.
Anyway, here's (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHFUH_frhBw) Dave Chappelle's classic skit on the Black White Supremacist
Kolya on 6/1/2012 at 10:49
Thank you dema for making a good and elaborate point. And to Azaran as well for not taking my opinion personally.
Even when I wrote that post last night I was aware that my opinion couldn't be made into a law and therefore had a flaw. I anticipated that someone would say Salad Fingers et al. were defacing the evil inside us all or something like that, and who's to say under such circumstances what is good art and what isn't. I would have made the point that Firth is obviously in it for the shock value and I can see nothing else in his comics, eg there are no normally acting people to contrast the madness.
Now Scots has pretty much made this point already.
Maybe I am overly sensible in this regard, but of course it has nothing to do with the country I was born in. It may have something to do with the fact that both my brother and my father have a history of severe psychological illness. Maybe that's why I am already fully aware that this insanity lurks inside all of us, including me. And a news story is indeed enough to point that out for me again, because I readily empathise with the victim as well as the wrongdoer and it just makes me feel powerless and drags me down.
I know it's necessary to acknowledge that part in ourselves. But it doesn't stop there. The reason we must acknowledge our aggressive hateful and violent side is so we can channel it into something that benefits us instead of destroying us. And where is that in Firth's comics?
You might say these comics are Firth's way to deal with these feelings inside himself and it's left up to the audience to do the same. And that presumes all of the audience actually gets that and does the mental work.
But since Firth is giving no hints whatsoever into that direction it's pretty easy to see how some people won't make that jump and instead feel liberated in a different way. Because there's someone who's just as or even more fucked up than they are. So apparently they are okay and don't have to change.
So in my opinion it's fine to uncover the absurdity and insanity of life in art but that's only half of the job.
Briareos H on 6/1/2012 at 10:55
Lovely.
Azaran on 6/1/2012 at 11:05
The part with the IRA guy was priceless :laff:
june gloom on 6/1/2012 at 18:21
Quote Posted by Koki
A grown up man who dresses up as a bat is not awesome.
How about a grown man who dresses up as a hipster?
Fuck off already. Go back to strangebedfellows where you and ZylonBane can take turns slapping each other's dicks and talking about how much TTLG sucks.
Vasquez on 6/1/2012 at 18:50
Quote Posted by Kolya
If that's humour to you, I think you're sick. Or very young.
But it's entirely grownup thing to call people sick or infantile if their sense of humor is different from yours?
