YuSeF on 31/5/2009 at 10:11
Quote Posted by Cozmo
This guy proves my point perfectly. He refuses to think for himself, has no common sense (or acts like he doesn't) and he is only going to believe
anything if he sees it in an internet publication so he would have a
"source". LOL If someone told him that the Earth is not flat, he'd call that statement "delusional", as no
"source" was provided. Scientific talk is one thing, but inability to rationalise, even on a simple level is just sad. Go ahead - ask for the source of anything people tell you in conversation and see how many weird looks you are going to get. :tsktsk:
Bit of a waste of time, showing him the error of his ways, but I was bored. And perhaps he'll learn. :idea: Then again, probably not.
I'm sorry, but your personal opinion does not make it so.
Cozmo on 31/5/2009 at 18:47
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Ahh, our old friend common sense. The mass abandonment of reason in favour of prejudice. It is rarely reliable - and because we tend to subconsciously seek out and preference information that reinforces our prejudices and avoid or reject information that doesn't, common sense is also a tricksy little minx. Don't trust her. Funny how internet sources can be greeted with due scepticis, yet one's own armchair expertise is accepted without question and defended vigorously.
May I suggest that by gamer, you mean a teenager who plays Tomb Raider and Gears of War and what ever it is that the kids do these days (yes I am out of touch, that's not the point), and thus think that gamers are most likely teenagers who play Tomb Raider etc. But can I also suggest that might not be the whole story - oh and also that it is completely irrelevant to generalise 'gamers' when thinking about a market for one particular product. The best market for Tomb Raider may be a younger audience, and that younger audience may be a huge tempting pool, but it is very full. Games like Gears of War may be phenomenal cash-cows, but I don't think it's smart to think that the only way a video game can be a commercial success is to try and do what Gears does. That'd just lead to saturation, making it difficult to sell anything while other markets go untapped and financial woes for developers and publishers and lost opportunities and so on. oh wait.
Anyone telling you that there isn't a market for smart video games targeted at people of around your age and older who maybe grew up with games and wouldn't mind keeping a toe in is an idiot and will probably need to be rescued by SquareEnix any time now. It's a different market perhaps, with different numbers and maybe needing a different approach - but it's there alright. If you don't want to believe me, try asking Valve.
What you said is generally true, but unfortunately not in this case. I won't go in too deep, but yes I regard my expertise as greater than a publication that claims people that play games earn on average $55,000 pa. Also, I don't see why it is always the older members of this forum that try to defend the said publications. Please, don't worry! I'm not claiming that people above 25 do not play games. Only that in numbers, they are
far less than the ones below that number.
On the point of generalising. I have to disagree - I stated my opinion on the general state of gaming - not a specific niche like stealth games or tomb raider. It was just extremely strange for me that people were willing to believe that the average "gamer" or "a person who plays video games on a regular basis" if you prefer, is 40+ years old. But believe me, I will definitely not waste any time on the internet trying to find sources to prove my point. That will be just sad. Believe what you will.
MorbusG on 31/5/2009 at 19:07
Quote Posted by Bulgarian_Taffer
I found myself surprised that although there were many angry rants here about TDS ... I actually enjoyed Thief - Deadly Shadows!
My my, someone else is up for being burned at the stake, too. I'm an oldtaffer too, but my list is 1) TMA 2) TDS 3) TDP.
TDS, IMHO, had more athmosphere than the other two. I can't really understand all the hate it gets, as it has, among other things, the best mission of all (Moira's Mansion).
Ixitixl on 31/5/2009 at 19:35
Quote Posted by MorbusG
My my, someone else is up for being burned at the stake, too. I'm an oldtaffer too, but my list is 1) TMA 2) TDS 3) TDP.
TDS, IMHO, had more athmosphere than the other two. I can't really understand all the hate it gets, as it has, among other things, the best mission of all (Moira's Mansion).
1) TDP, 2)TMA, 3)TDS oldtaffer here... and my thoughts on the atmosphere are pretty much the exact reverse of yours. Heh, we'll always have such divisions and are seemingly hopelessly doomed to never understand each others :p
Such is the situation with different tastes.
MorbusG on 31/5/2009 at 20:54
Quote Posted by Ixitixl
Heh, we'll always have such divisions and are seemingly hopelessly doomed to never understand each others :p
Such is the situation with different tastes.
Yeah, I just wanted to throw in a POV on the "Likes TDS == newtaffer" -debate.
YuSeF on 31/5/2009 at 22:45
Quote Posted by Cozmo
Believe what you will.
Apparently you do.
Renzatic on 1/6/2009 at 04:50
Quote Posted by Bulgarian_Taffer
1. Thief - The Dark Project
2. Thief - The Deadly Shadows
3. Thief - The Metal age
This is me right here, and almost for the same reasons. I picked up Thief Gold and Thief 2 in the same trip to the store. When I got home, I fired up TG and found it easily surpassed every expectation I had from the demo. From beginning to end, it was an experience.
I hopped immediately from it to Thief 2. Maybe I was burnt out on the stealing/sneaking shit by that point, but I found I didn't like it nearly as much as the original. To me, it felt like it was missing something. The missions seemed more sparse in comparison, and it lacked that ominous feel that pervaded throughout TG. T2 had some shining moments, no doubt. And when it shined, it shined bright. But on the whole, the game fell far short of the glory of good ole Thief.
Then we got TDS. I can't argue that it was a bit flawed and gimpy in comparison to its predecessors. But for what it lacked in the finer aspects of gameplay, it more than made up for in atmosphere. Moreso than T2, it felt like a true extension of the world shown in Thief. It brought back the eeriness, the mysteriousness, the aforementioned ominous feel of the original. For that reason alone, I loved it more than T2. Scars and all.
Chade on 1/6/2009 at 05:50
While we are on the subject, I'll fall in line behind Bulgarian_Taffer and Renzatic. Their reasons work for me, too, but I'll add a few more:
T1 is always going to be my favorite. I don't know if there is any logical reason for this ... it's probably more a matter of the immense nostalgia I have for the game. I look at people here who ask if EM can "bring back the magic" and think: well, if you are anything like me, it's just not possible. My love for T1 is not just about the intrinsic quality of the game, it's also about the context in which I played it. T1 got me interested in computer games: you can only do that once.
Thief 2 probably has the best stealth gameplay of the entire series, but its atmosphere didn't resonate with me as much as T1 or T3. I also didn't like how T2 was a virtual clone of T1 in most of the core gameplay. There wasn't really anything new to grab hold of.
On the other hand, I loved the atmosphere in T3, and I enjoyed how ISA played with the core gameplay. It gave me something to think about while playing.
Cozmo on 1/6/2009 at 07:04
Quote Posted by YuSeF
Apparently you do.
Extremely insightful.
